• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Simple fluoride question

Last edited:
Edx said:
So the NHS have to spend more money duh!... wait...
Click to expand...
I think a lot of these medical-type conspiracy theories show a USan-centric attitude. In the States, the idea that "big pharma" is manipulating the government so they make more money does make sense (in a bat-squeak insane kinda way). It falls apart in countries like the UK, where it's in the government's best interest to keep healthcare costs as low as possible.
Resolver said:
Who is? Me? No, I just want this negative research addressed:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php...&postcount=186
Click to expand...

Ok. It's cobblers. Glad I could help. :)
 
Sledge said:
I think a lot of these medical-type conspiracy theories show a USan-centric attitude. In the States, the idea that "big pharma" is manipulating the government so they make more money does make sense (in a bat-squeak insane kinda way). It falls apart in countries like the UK, where it's in the government's best interest to keep healthcare costs as low as possible.


Ok. It's cobblers. Glad I could help. :)
Click to expand...

What is cobblers about this research, itself, in regards to negative health effects (not conspiracy)?

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4304878&postcount=186

What counter research do you find more convincing?

I just want to know if there is good evidence it is bad at 1-4 ppm, for now, aside from any CT explanation of why it is still in our water.
 
Last edited:
When I was born my mother worked at Bristol University and I was given fluoride supplements as part of a study.

It was a pretty shoddy study, since no-one from Bristle has ever looked me up and asked me any health/teeth related questions.

At the age of 35, I have yet to have an extraction or filling, but then my father didn't get a filling until he was in his thirties either.

I've always been medically well, barring extremely mild asthma. I have had a few problems with depression and anxiety, but that can be traced to unpleasant childhood experiences.
 
Resolver said:
Who is? Me? No, I just want this negative research addressed:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4304878&postcount=186
Click to expand...


The most recent study in the OP list is from 1994. The earliest from 1943.

The FDI World Dental Federation is a federation of approximately 200 national dental associations and specialist groups. The organisation's vision of "leading the world to optimal oral health" acknowledges that oral health is an integral part of general health and well-being.

They state, as a result of their Congress in 2008
Promoting Dental Health through Water Fluoridation (2008)

Water fluoridation is the adjustment of the fluoride concentration in fluoride deficient water supplies to a level recommended for optimal oral health. More than 350 million people in over 30 countries receive the benefits of water fluoridation.
In recognition of the importance of promoting dental health through water fluoridation, the FDI World Dental Federation states that:
— Over sixty years of research and recent systematic reviews have shown that water fluoridation is an effective and efficient public health measure for the prevention of dental decay.
— Water fluoridation is particularly appropriate for populations demonstrating moderate to high risk of dental decay.
— At the fluoride concentrations recommended for the prevention of dental decay, human health is not adversely affected.
— In establishing the optimal level of fluoride to be used in water to prevent dental decay, public authorities should take into account the prevailing ambient air temperature, the availability of other sources of fluoride as well as dietary and cultural practices in the community.
— Water supplies to be fluoridated should be reliable and should be processed with the necessary facilities and expertise available to implement and monitor water fluoridation.
— Public health authorities should on the basis of scientific evidence monitor the effectiveness of water fluoridation, along with other methods of delivering fluoride for dental decay prevention.
— The public health benefits of water fluoridation far outweigh the possible occurrence of very mild enamel fluorosis/enamel opacities. The FDI recognises that prevention by using fluoride is the most realistic way of reducing the heavy burden of dental decay worldwide.

Bibliography
• McDonagh MS, Whiting PF, Wilson PM, Sutton AJ, Chestnutt I, Cooper J, Misso K, Bradley M, Treasure E, Kleijnen J. Systematic review of water fluoridation. BMJ. 2000;321:855-9.
• Truman BI, Gooch BF, Sulemana I, Gift HC, Horowitz AM, Evans CA, Griffin SO, Carande-Kulis VG. Reviews of evidence on interventions to prevent dental caries, oral and pharyngeal cancers, and sports-related craniofacial injuries. Am J Prev Med 2002;23 (1 Suppl):21-54
Click to expand...
I suggest you read the first paper referenced. It's available from the British Medical Journal. http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7265/855

The
Conclusions: The evidence of a beneficial reduction in caries should be considered together with the increased prevalence of dental fluorosis. There was no clear evidence of other potential adverse effects.
Click to expand...
Dr McDonagh e-mail address is there too. You might consider (very carefully) if you would like to ask her any further questions.

:th:
 
Last edited:
Gord_in_Toronto said:
The most recent study in the OP list is from 1994. The earliest from 1943.

The FDI World Dental Federation is a federation of approximately 200 national dental associations and specialist groups. The organisation's vision of "leading the world to optimal oral health" acknowledges that oral health is an integral part of general health and well-being.

They state, as a result of their Congress in 2008
Promoting Dental Health through Water Fluoridation (2008)

I suggest you read the first paper referenced. It's available from the British Medical Journal. http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7265/855

The Dr McDonagh e-mail address is there too. You might consider (very carefully) if you would like to ask her any further questions.

:th:
Click to expand...

I'm not sure how much the dates of those studies matter, but the counter evidence seems good. I'll check it out. Thanks!
 
Last edited:
Gord_in_Toronto said:
Conclusions: The evidence of a beneficial reduction in caries should be considered together with the increased prevalence of dental fluorosis. There was no clear evidence of other potential adverse effects.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Wait. You mean you have to do things like take them in context?

Next thing you're going to try to claim is that there's a difference between the rural Chinese population and the US general population that explains why fluorosis is more prevalent in one than the other.

Shill.
 
Sledge said:
I think a lot of these medical-type conspiracy theories show a USan-centric attitude. In the States, the idea that "big pharma" is manipulating the government so they make more money does make sense (in a bat-squeak insane kinda way). It falls apart in countries like the UK, where it's in the government's best interest to keep healthcare costs as low as possible.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the many areas of the earth where ground water fluoride levels are well above the "optimal" dose.

Now why would mother earth poison us???:jaw-dropp

(I point that out on every fluoride thread I come across and I have yet to receive a cogent response)
 
Tomblvd said:
Not to mention the many areas of the earth where ground water fluoride levels are well above the "optimal" dose.

Now why would mother earth poison us???:jaw-dropp

(I point that out on every fluoride thread I come across and I have yet to receive a cogent response)
Click to expand...
i was once told the fluoride in naturally fluoridated water is different from the kind used in artificially fluoridated water (and thus completely safe)

i asked for evidence of this difference and subsequent safety and of course was given none, however another poster later quote the first poster as the evidence i requested. i literally had no words and had to excuse myself from the forum. im sure they chalked it up as a win
 
Tomblvd said:
Now why would mother earth poison us???:jaw-dropp

(I point that out on every fluoride thread I come across and I have yet to receive a cogent response)
Click to expand...

Well, If Without Rights takes a break from misrepresenting Vitamin C studies over in the Science/Medicine forum maybe he'll come up with something.

(OTOH, IIRC he came out earlier in this thread not caring about naturally occurring "poison" so ...)
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
The most recent study in the OP list is from 1994. The earliest from 1943.

The FDI World Dental Federation is a federation of approximately 200 national dental associations and specialist groups. The organisation's vision of "leading the world to optimal oral health" acknowledges that oral health is an integral part of general health and well-being.

They state, as a result of their Congress in 2008
Promoting Dental Health through Water Fluoridation (2008)

I suggest you read the first paper referenced. It's available from the British Medical Journal. http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/321/7265/855

The Dr McDonagh e-mail address is there too. You might consider (very carefully) if you would like to ask her any further questions.

:th:
Click to expand...

The British Fluoride Society study (from the FDI World Dental Federation overview link) "One in a million - the facts about water fluoridation" does show show that fluoridation helps in tooth decay, especially in lower income areas, but doesn't address negative effects, AFAIK.

The British Medical Journal study in the second link seems like a study of other studies.

"Design: Search of 25 electronic databases and world wide web. Relevant journals hand searched;"

Low quality studies:

"214 studies were included. The quality of studies was low to moderate. "

So this was not a direct study, as far as I can tell, but an analysis of a set of lower quality studies. It would be interesting to know which studies were chosen and the particular validity scores given for each study. I'm looking through that now. It should be here: http://www.york.ac.uk/inst/crd/fluores.htm

For example, it would be helpful to have the validity scores for these negative effects studies, in particular, along with counter studies:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4304878&postcount=186
 
Last edited:
I see some people use the argument that not all countries add fluoride to the water, and if it is such a wise thing, why aren't they?

I'm from Norway, one country that does not add fluoride to the water. However, because of that, children have to eat fluoride pills. I remember taking one every night until I was around 12-13.

So don't believe we don't get any fluoride. Chances are, we get more!
 
Ryokan said:
I see some people use the argument that not all countries add fluoride to the water, and if it is such a wise thing, why aren't they?

I'm from Norway, one country that does not add fluoride to the water. However, because of that, children have to eat fluoride pills. I remember taking one every night until I was around 12-13.

So don't believe we don't get any fluoride. Chances are, we get more!
Click to expand...

So far, it seems to me that fluoridation can help prevent tooth decay.

But I'm only ~95% convinced it isn't also harmful. Would be nice to feel closer to 99.9%.
 
Last edited:
I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, Communist subversion and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. :)
 
Ryokan said:
I see some people use the argument that not all countries add fluoride to the water, and if it is such a wise thing, why aren't they?

I'm from Norway, one country that does not add fluoride to the water. However, because of that, children have to eat fluoride pills. I remember taking one every night until I was around 12-13.

So don't believe we don't get any fluoride. Chances are, we get more!
Click to expand...
one argument that came up earlier in this thread was that fluoride in the water wouldnt work because it doesnt stay on the teeth only enough when you drink it, wonder how he would respond to tablets, lol
 
Mr.D said:
Well, If Without Rights takes a break from misrepresenting Vitamin C studies over in the Science/Medicine forum maybe he'll come up with something.

(OTOH, IIRC he came out earlier in this thread not caring about naturally occurring "poison" so ...)
Click to expand...

Been there, done that with him.

He, along with others, have tried to claim that fluoride ions from calcium fluoride (the most abundant natural fluoride compound) were somehow different from those from sodium fluoride (which is also naturally occurring, but they ignore that) or other compounds used to fluoridate water.

He was never clear how that happened....
 
Ryokan said:
I see some people use the argument that not all countries add fluoride to the water, and if it is such a wise thing, why aren't they?

I'm from Norway, one country that does not add fluoride to the water. However, because of that, children have to eat fluoride pills. I remember taking one every night until I was around 12-13.

So don't believe we don't get any fluoride. Chances are, we get more!
Click to expand...

Many European countries that anti-fluoride sites proclaim have "rejected fluoridation!!!11!" actually put it in salt, much like the US has iodized salt.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom