Simple Challenge For Bigfoot Supporters

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carcharodon said:
Oh put a bloody sock in it Gavel. Always piping up on things that don't concern you like one half of Statler and Waldorf.:rolleyes:

Shut yer trap and keep out of it for once in your life.
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My hero!

Ray's talking about my memory? he's seems to have forgotten I filtered him.

Remarkable as it may seem, I have not read every one of tube's posts, so it's quite possible I missed something about the examining table. The drawer stood out for me because he referred to it when talking about this appalling break in the "chain of custody" he's made so much of, and discovered the originals weren't all originals (gasp!).

So, he's basing his conclusions about the "Holy Grail" on a copy and DY based his on copies (painted, at that), but DY himself said you should always examine originals wherever possible. He's refused to do that, but he plans to publish anyway.

DY claimed the hoofprints that should have been in the middle vanished in the slurry. The lack of sasquatch footprints is easily explained by belly-crawling (observed in other instances), the hard ground around the mudhole and the animal sitting and squashing one or more.

Green said OM was not a good cast and was not considered important until someone noticed dermal ridges on it. The cast was sent to Jeff labeled Blue Creek Mountain, but John said it was more likely from Onion Mountain. OM was an older event and the tracks were not in good shape, but they seem to have been made by the same individuals. Green thought there were casting artifacts on it all along, as did Krantz and Meldrum. A line has to have the characteristics before Chilcutt calls it a dermal ridge.

The only way I see this research as important, or even interesting, is to help researchers determine if they have actual dermal ridges on their casts or whether they have casting artifacts. Since the manufactures say this shouldn't happen, it would be useful to know what causes it to happen when it does.

I found a pouring line on a Bossburg copy DY sent me that doesn't seem to appear in any photos, which leads me to believe some artifacts can be introduced in the copying process. There are even a couple on a Wallace fake cast. So far, I've seen no comments on this.
 
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carcharodon said:
A telling point Lu is that when you posted here that he is a lampmaker nothing was said. No denial took place at the time. Nobody pulled you up and said that wasn't the case and that you were wrong or mistaken, even though plenty of people addressed other parts of your post. The 'lampmaker' comment was not refuted one bit. Tube did not deny he made lamps and neither did anybody else.

Can't see what the problem is myself.......except for the uneccesary whinging and protesting over one itsy bitsy remark, which wasn't even derogatory.

My you're a horrid one Lu. Big, bad and extremely offensive to all the wittle bunny wabbits here.:rolleyes:
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Really? Gosh, I thought I was only a fanatic.

These are some of the lamps at the market:

IMG_3700.jpg


http://www.orgoneresearch.com/interest.htm

I think they're rather nice.

I've forged candlesticks, but I haven't upgraded to electricity. I'm so behind the times.
 
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Belz... said:
Yep, we're having a civilised debate, now!
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Are we? About what?

BTW, the "pro" folks re-appeared to at last present reliable evidence and sound reasonings?

Or just to discuss lamps and make the usual ad homs?

:s2:

Some people should try finding a better way to relieve tensions, stress, etc.
Sports are better to decrease tensions and handle everiday's frustrations than popping out at www forums (fora?) spewing insults.

Oh, I almost forgot, sunlight turns trolls in to stone...
 
carcharodon said:
Oh put a bloody sock in it Gavel. Always piping up on things that don't concern you like one half of Statler and Waldorf.:rolleyes:

Shut yer trap and keep out of it for once in your life.
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Tries to be...

Michael-Caine.jpg


But invariably ends up...

gollum.jpg


ETA: Just a suggestion...

prozac.jpg
 
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LAL said:
I have no interest in industrial welding, but the blacksmithing was in the same building with the arc welders. Gives me some kind of a connection, don't you think?
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Gives you about as much of a connection as my working down the hall from 20 programmers and 10 animators and several dozen feet from the valets in the parking lot: I can't code, I don't do animation, and I can't valet cars.

Maybe you should get a position down the hall from a crime lab. You might "pick up some vibes" about how questionable chain of custody throws your evidence right into the trash bin. I've got a 100ish-year-old lizard in formaldehyde sitting in the next room--given to me by the curator of a herpe lab I worked in because ... they lost the record of how they acquired it.

Oh yeah ... one more thing ... you mention earlier in this thread about people "cop[ing]" photos off the web. I don't have a problem with this practice as long as it's not being used for personal financial gain, but would you concede you just "copped" a photo off Tube's website? Again, no prob with me, but pointing out hypocrisy has become a necessary part of the "debate" here, unfortunately.
 
carcharodon said:
Oh put a bloody sock in it Gavel. Always piping up on things that don't concern you like one half of Statler and Waldorf.:rolleyes:

Shut yer trap and keep out of it for once in your life.
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Carch, it seems your observational skills are as acute as your debating prowess. Three words for ya -- read my signature. Stick to facts and I have little reason to comment. Dangle false imformation as though it's factual and I tend to jump in with both big feet. (nice pun eh?)

For the most part LAL is bang on with providing links to purported evidence, or opinions of those interested in bigfoot, but she sometimes spouts off with assertions quite unsupported by any facts. When given latitude that she may be merely mistaken, and asked for supportive evidence that her assertion is true, she 'forgets' or 'doesn't remember' or 'doesn't have time to find' where she saw or read something. When eventually challenged to provide either a source for her mistaken assertion or an apology, she provides neither, and wanders away content in her own mind that she's successfully 'debated' something.

To her credit she doesn't engage in the emotional meltdowns that seem to be your forte, but she's not above presenting an untruth as though it were factual.

RayG
 
kitakaze said:
Incidentally, on the matter of the Skookum cast he says that while he can not state with 100% certainty that it is the imprint of a sasquatch he can state with complete confidence that it is not an elk. He bases this on experiments carried out involving elk experts and elk parts. He says that wrist of a 650 lb elk was far too small to match what he indentifies as an achilles tendon but just right for a creature of the purportions shown.
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Why were experiments limited to 650 lb elk parts, when Roosevelt elk, which are found in the same geographical area as the Skookum cast (west of the Cascades), grow nearly twice as large? Were any tests conducted using these larger elk parts?

http://www.safariclubfoundation.org/humanitarian/sensory/recordbook/dsp_AnimalDetail.cfm?Detail=Deer
http://www.scsc.k12.ar.us/2001Outwest/PacificNaturalHistory/Projects/JeffersE/Default.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elk_(Cervus_canadensis)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascade_Range
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gifford_Pinchot_National_Forest

RayG
 
the evilist serene said:
Gives you about as much of a connection as my working down the hall from 20 programmers and 10 animators and several dozen feet from the valets in the parking lot: I can't code, I don't do animation, and I can't valet cars.
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You don't do humor, either, it seems.

Oh yeah ... one more thing ... you mention earlier in this thread about people "cop[ing]" photos off the web. I don't have a problem with this practice as long as it's not being used for personal financial gain, but would you concede you just "copped" a photo off Tube's website? Again, no prob with me, but pointing out hypocrisy has become a necessary part of the "debate" here, unfortunately.
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I have a problem with people joining BFF and reposting without attribution, which was against their rules at the time, and reposting from the Member's Lounge, and people posting pictures without giving the source, but where do you get I have a problem with copping photos from the Internet? I do it often.

I posted the picture and the link, gave his work a compliment and you think I'm being a hypocrite? I'm not even going to try to figure that one out.
 
RayG said:
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Why were experiments limited to 650 lb elk parts, when Roosevelt elk, which are found in the same geographical area as the Skookum cast (west of the Cascades), grow nearly twice as large? Were any tests conducted using these larger elk parts?
RayG
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Do you know that wasn't a Roosevelt Elk?

"Roosevelt elk are sometimes known as Olympic elk and they are the largest of the big game animals. A mature bull may weigh as much as 1,000 pounds or even more, but on the average they will weigh much less. Both male and female elk have a dark-colored neck mane. Antlers of the males are heavy, and tend to rise straighter and with much less spread than antlers of the Rocky Mountain elk.

The greatest difference between Roosevelt elk and Rocky Mountain elk is in their habits and distribution. Roosevelt elk choose to live in the rain forests of the Pacific coast."

http://www.scsc.k12.ar.us/2001Outwest/PacificNaturalHistory/Projects/JeffersE/Default.htm

Why not ask Rick? How would anyone here know that?
 
Bigfoot... Welding... Dermals... Ad homs... Skookum...

Where's the connection?

Got it!

Tube was supposed to weld the avaliable "pro" pieces of evidence. However, his work showed that the final artwork's strong hardpoints would actually have been the welds instead of the evidence (beams)...

So, he became an evil lamp-making infidel.

DY was supposed to be the new pro-BF PhD. He ended up pointing evidence that Skookum cast registers an elk and teamed (welded?) with Tube for some work on footprint casts.

So, he became and evil infidel ichnologist.

Some individuals seem to have taken as a personal mission to carry on an inquisition against these (as well as other) heretics. Tremble and fear, oh infidels, the power of the ad homs and lies!
 
RayG said:
Carch, it seems your observational skills are as acute as your debating prowess. Three words for ya -- read my signature. Stick to facts and I have little reason to comment. Dangle false imformation as though it's factual and I tend to jump in with both big feet. (nice pun eh?)

For the most part LAL is bang on with providing links to purported evidence, or opinions of those interested in bigfoot, but she sometimes spouts off with assertions quite unsupported by any facts.
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Such as? If you're referring to the Krantz and the SC thing again, I did more searching yesterday. I only have about 150 references to go on the thread I think it was on.

When given latitude that she may be merely mistaken, and asked for supportive evidence that her assertion is true, she 'forgets' or 'doesn't remember' or 'doesn't have time to find' where she saw or read something.
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That's quite a generalization, especially when I've made several searches here already. Yes, I don't have time to reread everything you've written on this board, but I'm trying. There've been two other posts by other posters on this board I haven't been able to find. I suspect some posts may have gotten lost in upgrades. For instance, I was able to find a post of mine referring to one, but not the original post. I've already said I'll have the links to hand before posting in future.

Perhaps you don't remember that for nine months I singlehandedly debated "everybody" on six or more threads. That's a lot of posting and it was taking up most of my free time. I obligingly spent days trying to find a link to the article with the quote from Stringer, both in My Favorites and online. I remembered the statement, just not the title of the article. I've saved over 500 articles on human evolution at last count, and some are identified only by the URL.

I've never claimed to have a perfect memory (I don't even remember everything I've written, months or years later) but there's nothing selective about it and I certainly can't chose to forget something if it "suits" me. Memory doesn't work like that.

Paul posted an article recently on BFF that says essentially the same thing Stringer said. Did you see that?

When eventually challenged to provide either a source for her mistaken assertion or an apology, she provides neither, and wanders away content in her own mind that she's successfully 'debated' something.
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Reading my mind now, are you? I don't apologize to people I don't owe apologies to nor retract when no retraction is in order. I've provided links when I could and I don't recall any uncorrected mistakes.

I do have other things to do than satisfy your demands for links, but that doesn't mean I've "wandered away", content or otherwise. It looks like the indexing is complete now, so my chances may be better than they were a few months ago.

If you're referring to certain remarks of mine on BFF concerning Jimmy Chilcutt, I neglected to get his permission to quote him, so I was a bit hamstrung. Melissa essentially confirmed what I wanted to say.

To her credit she doesn't engage in the emotional meltdowns that seem to be your forte, but she's not above presenting an untruth as though it were factual.

RayG
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How about being specific? What untruth have I presented as though it were factual?

(I'll be leaving you off filter while I continue searching, so you may speak to my face instead of behind my back if you wish.)

Thanks for the nice things you said.
 
I thought LAL had me on ignore?

LAL said:
Do you know that wasn't a Roosevelt Elk?
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What wasn't a Roosevelt Elk? The 650 lb one they used for experimental purposes? Maybe it was, but why use such a small one when much larger ones obviously exist in that specific area.

"Roosevelt elk are sometimes known as Olympic elk and they are the largest of the big game animals. A mature bull may weigh as much as 1,000 pounds or even more, but on the average they will weigh much less. Both male and female elk have a dark-colored neck mane. Antlers of the males are heavy, and tend to rise straighter and with much less spread than antlers of the Rocky Mountain elk.

The greatest difference between Roosevelt elk and Rocky Mountain elk is in their habits and distribution. Roosevelt elk choose to live in the rain forests of the Pacific coast."
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LAL, you omitted the next sentence from that link: "They prefer the logged and burned over areas of the coastal mountains and the western slope of the Cascades."

Wikipedia also makes that observation:

The largest of the subspecies is the Roosevelt Elk, found west of the Cascade Range in the U.S. states of California, Oregon and Washington, and in the Canadian province of British Columbia.
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Since the Skookum cast was discovered in Gifford Pinchot National Forest, and the GPNF extends 116 km along the western slopes of Cascade Range, I wondered aloud, "why were experiments limited to 650 lb elk parts, when Roosevelt elk, which are found in the same geographical area as the Skookum cast (west of the Cascades), grow nearly twice as large?"

Don't you find that the least bit curious? If elk are truly going to be eliminated as a possible candidate, why not use measurements and bodyparts of a large male elk? What it presently equates to is finding a shoe-print left by Shaquille O'Neal (size 23), and stating with complete confidence that it is not a human shoe-print based on experiments carried out involving my size 13 shoes. Human grow bigger than size 13 shoes, and elk grow a whole lot larger than 650 lbs.

Why not ask Rick? How would anyone here know that?
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I had no expectation that anyone here would know the answer, I was hoping to stimulate some thought on the matter. I shall post the same curiosity over on the BFF and see what response I get.

RayG
 
drapier said:
My favorite one:



Link.
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Responding to this:

"So, if the competition for resources have been tilted in Big Foot's favor, why don't hunters out killing BF's competators ever seen one and shot it (with gun or camera)? Why aren't there more of these beasts as they grow with the lack of competition?"

Perhaps I should have said "hunters have claimed to have shot them", but I thought my meaning was clear. The implication seemed to be that no hunters have shot them, but there are reports of that.

There are several stills thought to be authentic as well as at least four "moving" pictures. Strictly speaking, I guess none were shot by hunters "out killing BF's competators", but hunters I've known carry weapons, not cameras, and hunt by day rather than at night when these animals are thought to be most active.

I was referring to pictures in general rather than addressing that specific point.

Hasn't this been discussed before?
 
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