Signs of the Times...AGAIN?!

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

The point of this thread is to discuss how we may or may not be in the "Last Days" if you believe we are then support your opinion and vise versa.

To start things off, I do not believe we are in the "Last days" because to be honest, more than likely all of the so called "Signs" have happened before and us not even know about it. The World is big, no one knows what happens all at once. Also, a lot of other religions have been around longer than Christianity so what makes this one automatically right?

 

[TimCallahan]

As an example of how people can extrapolate a pattern from the crises of their time to make them fit the "end times," consider a book I found in the library of the Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena. It was written in the 1860s and titled Louis Nabpoleon, with the subtitle "Is he to be the leader of the ten nations and the Antichrist?" To his credit, the author, David Lord, rejected that hypothesis. However, the contention was serious enough that he had to devote a 450 plus page book to debate it.

For those who might not be that familiar with Louis Napoleon, he was the nephew of Napoleon Bonapart and an oportunistic politician. After getting himself elected president of the French republic, he declared himself emperor as Napoleon III. While he seemed an up and coming contender as a power broker in Europe in the 1860s, his ultimate end was ignominious. He was lured into the Franco-Prussian War by the machinations of Otto von Bismark. Following the disastrous defeat at the Battle of Sedan, Napoleon III's government collapsed, and he was forced to flee to the Prussians to avoid being murdered by his fellow Frenchmen.

 

[Nonpareil]

REPENT

YE SINNERS

FOR THE END IS HERE

GOD'S PROPHET HAS TOLD US

DANI' EL SPEAKS TRUTH!!!

srsly

 

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

REPENT

YE SINNERS

FOR THE END IS HERE

GOD'S PROPHET HAS TOLD US

DANI' EL SPEAKS TRUTH!!!

srsly

Good thing I am in Michigan and not Cali

 

[seayakin]

You might want to define what you mean by "End of Times". Christian Millennialists are not necessarily in agreement about what defines the "end of times." Each therefore, might have different list of signs. Additionally, other religions have their own predictions and probably signs.

-Fundamentalist christian view defined by the coming of the anti-christ
-Fundamentalist christian view defined by the presence of fire and brimstone
-Mayan calendar defined by?
-Environmentalist Jermiads defined by the destruction of the environment and collapse of the human population

 

[XxDeadlyNinjaxX]

I was mainly referring to the Fundamentalist Christian views. I am also talking about how some people in the Christian Community believe they see "Signs of the Times".

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I see no reason to believe anyone's "end times" theory any more than the hundreds of them that have failed.

This site gives a listing of some of them:

http://www.abhota.info/end1.htm

The first one is one that someone else here pointed out to me isn't very well-documented--at least neither he nor I could find any other source besides people who attribute it to Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts. I don't know if Asimov was skilled in reading cuneiform or whatever's on the clay tablet and did the translation himself, or if the story is apocryphal, or it is someone else's scholarship that I just haven't been able to find. At any rate, I wouldn't be surprised if it were legit. Here's the quote:

According to Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts (1979), an Assyrian clay tablet dating to approximately 2800 BC was unearthed bearing the words "Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common." This is one of the earliest examples of the perception of moral decay in society being interpreted as a sign of the imminent end.

In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to learn that these sorts of end-times prophecies were made even before humans had written language.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

I think these things come from a very real tendency to look at the "degeneration" of mores as we age.

Even though I'm no end-times prophet, I find myself using phrases like "these kids today" and "hell in a handbasket" more and more as I age! In another day and age, I could see that tendency taking on religious overtones and leading a person to thinking the end is near.

 

[kerikiwi]

The point of this thread is to discuss how we may or may not be in the "Last Days" if you believe we are then support your opinion and vise versa.

To start things off, I do not believe we are in the "Last days" because to be honest, more than likely all of the so called "Signs" have happened before and us not even know about it. The World is big, no one knows what happens all at once. Also, a lot of other religions have been around longer than Christianity so what makes this one automatically right?

The universe is not about to end. I promise.

 

[Kurse]

If it took God 6 days to create the earth (a.k.a. billions of years) then if we are in the 'last days' as us christains say, then logically we are in the last billions of years.

People are just crazy. Stand the heat, or go swim.

 

[Kurse]

REPENT

YE SINNERS

FOR THE END IS HERE

GOD'S PROPHET HAS TOLD US

DANI' EL SPEAKS TRUTH!!!

srsly

lawlboats. Too bad he's not a meme. Maybe next time someone preaches the end of the world, we should just claim the Dani' El Effect. lol

 

[Marduk]

According to Isaac Asimov's Book of Facts (1979), an Assyrian clay tablet dating to approximately 2800 BC was unearthed bearing the words "Our earth is degenerate in these latter days. There are signs that the world is speedily coming to an end. Bribery and corruption are common." This is one of the earliest examples of the perception of moral decay in society being interpreted as a sign of the imminent end.

firstly Assyria didn't exist until after 2000bce
and
the quote goes further

children no longer obey their parents; every man wants to write a book and the end of the world is evidently approaching."

at this point you can clearly tell its fabricated, the clue, the claim that every man wants to write a book. See there is no Assyrian word for book, no Babylonian or Akkadian or Sumerian word for book either, they hadn't been invented then, so claiming every man wants to write one would be like claiming that all Assyrians wanted to fly a 747. In fact scribe training was a career choice, as it took 15 years to learn, so writing anything was a specialist field and certainly not for "every man".

N.B. I also searched for the quote using academic sources and theres no trace of any of the phrases used in it, so its not even incorrectly quoted, just fake.

 

[TheAnachronism]

As an example of how people can extrapolate a pattern from the crises of their time to make them fit the "end times," consider a book I found in the library of the Fuller Theological Seminary in Pasadena. It was written in the 1860s and titled Louis Nabpoleon, with the subtitle "Is he to be the leader of the ten nations and the Antichrist?" To his credit, the author, David Lord, rejected that hypothesis. However, the contention was serious enough that he had to devote a 450 plus page book to debate it.

For those who might not be that familiar with Louis Napoleon, he was the nephew of Napoleon Bonapart and an oportunistic politician. After getting himself elected president of the French republic, he declared himself emperor as Napoleon III. While he seemed an up and coming contender as a power broker in Europe in the 1860s, his ultimate end was ignominious. He was lured into the Franco-Prussian War by the machinations of Otto von Bismark. Following the disastrous defeat at the Battle of Sedan, Napoleon III's government collapsed, and he was forced to flee to the Prussians to avoid being murdered by his fellow Frenchmen.

Here is an 1865 book entitled Louis Napoleon with the subtitle of Future Personal Antichrist, Foreshown In Prophecy To Confirm A Seven Years' Covenant With The Jews, About Seven Years Before The Millenium, And (after The Resurrection And Ascension Of The Wise Virgins Has Taken Place Two Years And From Four To Six Weeks After The Covenant,) Subsequently To Become Completely Supreme Over England And Most Of America, And All Christendom, And Fiercely To Persecute Christians During The Latter Half Of The Seven Years, Until He Finally Perishes At The Descent Of Christ, At The End OF THE WAR OF ARMAGEDDON, ABOUT OR SOON AFTER 1873.

 

[Kurse]

N.B. I also searched for the quote using academic sources and theres no trace of any of the phrases used in it, so its not even incorrectly quoted, just fake.

I must say, good show lol.

 

[hamelekim]

Are we living in the end times?

2 Timothy 3

1But understand this, that(A) in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be(B) lovers of self,(C) lovers of money,(D) proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3(E) heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal,(F) not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless,(G) swollen with conceit,(H) lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but(I) denying its power.(J) Avoid such people.

We have been in the last days since the Death and resurrection of Jesus. But the nearer his coming the worse these things will become, and the more widespread.

The rise of homosexuality as being alright is one of the major signs we are nearing the very end, as this has been been acceptable to societies around the world, throughout history. This is especially the case in former and current "Christian" nations, Europe and the America's.

 

[JoeTheJuggler]

firstly Assyria didn't exist until after 2000bce
and

Was that dating known in the 1970s?

the quote goes further

I haven't seen that part before. I'm not sure an obviously false part of the quote proves the whole thing is a fake. (Sort of like the obvious Christian insertion into Josephus doesn't prove that the entire mention of Jesus was fake.)

N.B. I also searched for the quote using academic sources and theres no trace of any of the phrases used in it, so its not even incorrectly quoted, just fake.

To me, that's much stronger evidence of it being fake than anything else. However, I also don't have Asimov's Book of Facts. Asimov was an expert in many fields, and I don't know that he didn't claim to have seen a tablet and offered the translation himself. (Or make some other scholarly citation that for whatever reason we can't find, for whatever reason.) In other words, does the claim come from Asimov or is it a false attribution to him that sprung up on the interwebs?

At any rate, even if it's fake, I have no doubt that such sentiments existed as far back as we were human--just a religious spin on the Grumpy Old Man phenomenon.

 

[Nonpareil]

Are we living in the end times?

2 Timothy 3

More scripture. Gah. Ah, well... time to go to work.

1But understand this, that(A) in the last days there will come times of difficulty. 2For people will be(B) lovers of self,(C) lovers of money,(D) proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, 3(E) heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal,(F) not loving good, 4treacherous, reckless,(G) swollen with conceit,(H) lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5having the appearance of godliness, but(I) denying its power.(J) Avoid such people.

We have been in the last days since the Death and resurrection of Jesus. But the nearer his coming the worse these things will become, and the more widespread.

Uh, no. If this is true at all, then we've been living in the end times since BEFORE Jesus was born. It's a long end.
Every generation, there are those preaching that the end times are here. But all these conditions for the end times arriving are very vaguely defined. You could apply them to any person at any time.

The rise of homosexuality as being alright is one of the major signs we are nearing the very end, as this has been been acceptable to societies around the world, throughout history. This is especially the case in former and current "Christian" nations, Europe and the America's.

Uh-huh. Right. You're not a bigot at all. Where in that list does it say anything about homosexuality? ANYWHERE? Oh, that's right. It doesn't.

 

[TimCallahan]

Here is an 1865 book entitled Louis Napoleon with the subtitle of Future Personal Antichrist, Foreshown In Prophecy To Confirm A Seven Years' Covenant With The Jews, ... ABOUT OR SOON AFTER 1873.[/URL]

Thanks for that link. I'll see if I can find Baxter's book at the Fuller library.

 

[MG1962]

Was that dating known in the 1970s?

I believe the source material for that book is even older. Asimov wrote a 2 volume work about the Bible in 67, 68.

However I believe by about 1975 He was allowing his name to be associated with this type of 'fact' book that was popular at the time, even though he had no editoral input into the information contained

 

[Blackwell]

...The rise of homosexuality as being alright is one of the major signs we are nearing the very end, as this has been been acceptable to societies around the world, throughout history. This is especially the case in former and current "Christian" nations, Europe and the America's.

With any luck, this is only a harbinger of the end of Christianity.