Signs of hope from an unlikely source

[Minoosh]

I listen to news talk radio on a long weekend commute and the shorter weekday rides. Last night I tapped into a Mark Levin broadcast. He was not in full-on repetitive rant mode, so I listened. He was counting down the top electoral college victories in history. Trump's win was in the bottom 25 percent. This was a reaction to a Kellyanne Conway's claiming that Trump had won the EC by a landslide. Levin also credited Hillary with a 2.3 million and counting popular-vote lead. His point ended up being that there was no huge populist uprising, no mandate, at that conservative media were going to "hold his feet to the fire" on Trump's campaign promises.

Even though I don't want Trump to keep his promises, I found Levin's bit encouraging. If it were done by SNL or John Oliver or even CNN, it would not have as much potential impact. I think Levin is pretty smart and understands that if NATO can't depend on the U.S., then maybe Israel can't either. Talk radio hosts now have to do something besides hate Hillary and cheer for Trump. Are they beginning to hedge their bets a little? They have their own careers and credibility to protect. They're not all "ditto heads." They have to stay relevant and entertaining and I'm interested to see where they go from here.

 

[fuelair]

I listen to news talk radio on a long weekend commute and the shorter weekday rides. Last night I tapped into a Mark Levin broadcast. He was not in full-on repetitive rant mode, so I listened. He was counting down the top electoral college victories in history. Trump's win was in the bottom 25 percent. This was a reaction to a Kellyanne Conway's claiming that Trump had won the EC by a landslide. Levin also credited Hillary with a 2.3 million and counting popular-vote lead. His point ended up being that there was no huge populist uprising, no mandate, at that conservative media were going to "hold his feet to the fire" on Trump's campaign promises.

Even though I don't want Trump to keep his promises, I found Levin's bit encouraging. If it were done by SNL or John Oliver or even CNN, it would not have as much potential impact. I think Levin is pretty smart and understands that if NATO can't depend on the U.S., then maybe Israel can't either. Talk radio hosts now have to do something besides hate Hillary and cheer for Trump. Are they beginning to hedge their bets a little? They have their own careers and credibility to protect. They're not all "ditto heads." They have to stay relevant and entertaining and I'm interested to see where they go from here.

I am good with the Trump supporting ones resigning or being fired!!!!!!!

 

[fuelair]

And, self defenestration I would also not find amiss!!!!!

 

[Minoosh]

And, self defenestration I would also not find amiss!!!!!

I don't want to bump this thread to pretend a trend exists; but tonight I again heard Mark Lavin leading a caller into criticism of Trump. Though I still do not like Levin, there are interesting hints that the "conservative" movement is not totally on board with Trump. In the coming 12-hour news cycle, Trump might look good. A thousand jobs kept in Indiana, etc. But I sense that there are already sharks smelling blood.

IMO.

 

[Norman Alexander]

He didn't actually keep 1000 jobs in Indiana. He just extracted a vague promise that the company maybe just might not use offshore labour (i.e. they will still lose their jobs, just not get replaced by Mexicans.).

For now.

Maybe.

(Fingers crossed.)

And that's good enough for Trump to lie about!

 

[Minoosh]

He didn't actually keep 1000 jobs in Indiana. He just extracted a vague promise that the company maybe just might not use offshore labour (i.e. they will still lose their jobs, just not get replaced by Mexicans.).

For now.

Maybe.

(Fingers crossed.)

And that's good enough for Trump to lie about!

Yeah, I get that. Plenty of jobs by this company are still moving "overseas." Trump can take credit for a Pence initiative, which is fair enough; that's politics.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Yeah, I get that. Plenty of jobs by this company are still moving "overseas." Trump can take credit for a Pence initiative, which is fair enough; that's politics.

The sequence goes:

1) Company wants to offshore 1000 jobs to Mexico, keeping 1000 local.

2) Pence and Trump wag finger to show public they are "serious".

3) Company says it won't send jobs to Mexico.

4) Trump crows!

5) Company sends the all 2000 jobs to Guatemala or Philippines or China...

 

[Minoosh]

The sequence goes:

1) Company wants to offshore 1000 jobs to Mexico, keeping 1000 local.

2) Pence and Trump wag finger to show public they are "serious".

3) Company says it won't send jobs to Mexico.

4) Trump crows!

5) Company sends the all 2000 jobs to Guatemala or Philippines or China...

Apologies if this is a dupe. My response isn't showing up. People in the heartland aren't stupid and IMO will notice if this is a game of smoke and mirrors. It might take longer than I'd like, but "simple" folk does not equal stupid.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Apologies if this is a dupe. My response isn't showing up. People in the heartland aren't stupid and IMO will notice if this is a game of smoke and mirrors.

Indeed they will notice, but only after it is too late to do anything about it.

The issue is they expect a modicum of honesty in these dealings, even if it is not going to be good news. The problem is the people they are dealing with are utterly selfish and have not one shred of honesty among them. The heartland folks really should take it as read that whatever Trump says is so is going to be the opposite of what actually happens. And also, he is in this only for himself. So if he has promised them these jobs are safe, they should be making plans as though they are not.

 

[Minoosh]

Indeed they will notice, but only after it is too late to do anything about it.

The issue is they expect a modicum of honesty in these dealings, even if it is not going to be good news.

When they see their buddies being put out of work, questions may arise. They may not quite be the rubes that Trump et al. expect them to be.

 

[Norman Alexander]

When they see their buddies being put out of work, questions may arise. They may not quite be the rubes that Trump et al. expect them to be.

I don't think anyone thinks they are rubes. Just that Trump's sole claim to excellence is in rooking many people, pocketing the loot, and then walking away from the train-wreck unscathed. And many, many very smart people have been taken in by his suave chat-up lines before...

Seriously, I believe the Carrier workers need to get a really solid Plan B in place right now, despite (or indeed as a result of) any and all assurances from Trump.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Apologies if this is a dupe. My response isn't showing up. People in the heartland aren't stupid and IMO will notice if this is a game of smoke and mirrors. It might take longer than I'd like, but "simple" folk does not equal stupid.

And yet they couldn't figure it out before Trump was elected. Not exactly a compliment for the idiots that voted for this fraud.

 

[quadraginta]

Apologies if this is a dupe. My response isn't showing up. People in the heartland aren't stupid and IMO will notice if this is a game of smoke and mirrors. It might take longer than I'd like, but "simple" folk does not equal stupid.

It's already taken a lot longer than it should have. They've had a year and a half of campaigning to learn from.

If that wasn't enough for them to see what a lying con man Trump is then there's no reason to think they'll suddenly see the light now.

To make matters worse, they'd have to admit that they were wrong, which is hard enough for most people, but also that their own actions are responsible for this outcome.

Nah. They'll claim they were right all along, and blame somebody ... anybody ... else.

 

[marplots]

Seriously, I believe the Carrier workers need to get a really solid Plan B in place right now, despite (or indeed as a result of) any and all assurances from Trump.

Yeah, I think Carrier is late to the party here. I was surprised to find that any air conditioners were manufactured in the US. I thought they'd all moved offshore already.

In a country that lives and breathes competition, finding lower cost solutions to meet market demands is the norm. Labor arbitrage isn't social injustice so much as "just business."

Headline in Mexico (as loosely translated from the Spanish):
Trump Cancels 1000 New Mexican Jobs: How will we pay for the wall now?

 

[Brainster]

I don't want to bump this thread to pretend a trend exists; but tonight I again heard Mark Lavin leading a caller into criticism of Trump. Though I still do not like Levin, there are interesting hints that the "conservative" movement is not totally on board with Trump.

Levin was one of the last conservative talk radio hosts to come around (kicking and screaming) to supporting Trump as an alternative to Hillary. So it's not surprising that he would be one of the first off the bandwagon after the election.

 

[NoahFence]

Apologies if this is a dupe. My response isn't showing up. People in the heartland aren't stupid and IMO will notice if this is a game of smoke and mirrors. It might take longer than I'd like, but "simple" folk does not equal stupid.

Oh, I wouldn't say that.

This election is on them.

 

[ponderingturtle]

He didn't actually keep 1000 jobs in Indiana. He just extracted a vague promise that the company maybe just might not use offshore labour (i.e. they will still lose their jobs, just not get replaced by Mexicans.).

For now.

Maybe.

(Fingers crossed.)

And that's good enough for Trump to lie about!

Of course a lot of them are R&D jobs that were not under threat and they did get a huge tax break to keep jobs there.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/trouble-trump-pence-carrier-deal-article-1.2894265

So really they are on the government dole.

 

[Minoosh]

If that wasn't enough for them to see what a lying con man Trump is then there's no reason to think they'll suddenly see the light now.

I don't expect it will be sudden, although it may look sudden. But I don't really know anything.

 

[Cain]

They have their own careers and credibility to protect. They're not all "ditto heads." They have to stay relevant and entertaining and I'm interested to see where they go from here.

Instead of simply calling this naive, I would like to introduce you to the Bush years.

People are tribal, not rational. Also, talk radio show hosts follow their audiences rather than simply leading them. Finally, most people listen to this garbage not to inform their worldview, but confirm it. I would not expect sustained and serious criticism.

 

[blutoski]

Of course a lot of them are R&D jobs that were not under threat and they did get a huge tax break to keep jobs there.

http://www.nydailynews.com/opinion/trouble-trump-pence-carrier-deal-article-1.2894265

So really they are on the government dole.

And just them, probably. Feels like a one time thing.

Three thoughts about the Carrier 'deal'.

1. whatever tax incentives (taxpayer subsidy) they were offered, it had to be worth the $65 million they said they were going to lose by staying. So that's $65,000 per job saved, per year, out of the taxpayers' pocket. Is that a net gain for the state? I doubt it. This makes it theatre rather than any economic gain.

2. the deal itself is 'tax break from the state' - OK, that's not a Trump thing, that's a 50 year old strategy of buying jobs by bribing the business in question and asking the taxpayers to absorb the cost of a politician's victory. This offer was available to Pence every second of the election period, but he didn't exercise it. What changed?

3. please don't tell me this is the national strategy... Trump promised 25 million more manufacturing jobs. At $65,000 per, that's $1.625 trillion dollar tax break in an economy with $3.3 trillion in tax revenue. I'm thinking this will not pan out as expected without massive deficits or crippling public services, including the military.