Signs are that the Supremes may rule against WBC

[The Mutha]

I've been to a funeral where the WBC showed up to protest. I'm a fairly level-headed, non-violent person, but when I wheeled my bike around the corner and saw the WBC peeps holding up signs that said "Your Pastor is a Whore" and "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" along with about an 7 year old holding a sign saying "God Hates Fags", I have to say that my gut reaction was pretty dang violent. It was a very bizarre feeling and I can completely understand why people would plow their SUV through the lot of them. I wouldn't condone that action, but I definitely would understand it.

It's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in the SCOTUS.

 

[Unabogie]

Just to clarify, this case is about a civil suit, right? The father of one of these soldiers sued for emotional distress and won, but had the case overturned by an appeals court. Now it's up to the SCOTUS to decide whether or not you can sue in a case like this. So it's not about putting them in jail, which I think is important. Also, the case hinges on whether or not the family members are "public persons" because their names were in the paper.

Can a person be sued for speech if that speech is clearly designed to intimidate or harass? Can I sue if a person calls my phone every day and tells my kids that they're going to hell? And this goes on for months?

Or can a person stand outside my house and yell at me, day after day? At what point do I have the right to be left alone, even though we're only talking about speech? Does your right to speech end where my right to peace begins?

 

[Puppycow]

Just to clarify, this case is about a civil suit, right? The father of one of these soldiers sued for emotional distress and won, but had the case overturned by an appeals court. Now it's up to the SCOTUS to decide whether or not you can sue in a case like this. So it's not about putting them in jail, which I think is important. Also, the case hinges on whether or not the family members are "public persons" because their names were in the paper.

Can a person be sued for speech if that speech is clearly designed to intimidate or harass? Can I sue if a person calls my phone every day and tells my kids that they're going to hell? And this goes on for months?

Or can a person stand outside my house and yell at me, day after day? At what point do I have the right to be left alone, even though we're only talking about speech? Does your right to speech end where my right to peace begins?

Those examples would probably get into stalking laws. You could probably get a restraining order at least.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Just to clarify, this case is about a civil suit, right? The father of one of these soldiers sued for emotional distress and won, but had the case overturned by an appeals court. Now it's up to the SCOTUS to decide whether or not you can sue in a case like this. So it's not about putting them in jail, which I think is important. Also, the case hinges on whether or not the family members are "public persons" because their names were in the paper.

Can a person be sued for speech if that speech is clearly designed to intimidate or harass? Can I sue if a person calls my phone every day and tells my kids that they're going to hell? And this goes on for months?

Or can a person stand outside my house and yell at me, day after day? At what point do I have the right to be left alone, even though we're only talking about speech? Does your right to speech end where my right to peace begins?

The Beeb emphasized this wasn't a constitutional case.

 

[Unabogie]

Those examples would probably get into stalking laws. You could probably get a restraining order at least.

Don't stalking laws also infringe on my free speech rights to creepily stalk people?

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Wow, I really hope this is inaccurate. I think Phelps is one of the biggest douchebags on the planet, but even douchebags have rights under the First Amendment. If the SCOTUS rules against him on this one, I think it doesn't bode well for free speech in the United States.

I think they're going more for the harrassment angle. You aren't allowed to harrass people.

 

[DavidJames]

Wait, since when did Diana Ross get to have the last word on the interpretation and application of the US constitution?

I agree, what about Mary Wilson and Florence Ballard, they should at least be able to providing a backing vote.

 

[leftysergeant]

Oops--you and leftyseargent beat me to it. However, since no violence was incited, you'd have a difficult time making that argument in this case.

(Bolding mine.)Give it time. You know it's coming. The the slime-dwellers will sue the person they harrassed past the breaking point, wasting court time and impoverishing the real victim of a crime. (A victim of a hate crime, at that.)

 

[Travis]

I do wonder how long it will be before something truly bad happens at one of these protests.

 

[Arisia]

Counter protesters with bigger signs should surround the WBC group at each funeral protest and keep the mourners (and the media) from seeing the WBC group. The counter protesters shouldn't interact with the WBC people, just surround them and turn their backs on them while holding up their own signs.

The restraint that mourning families (and the motorcycle groups I've heard of that try to shield the families from the WBC at many funerals) show when the WBC protests at funerals amazes me.

 

[Yalius]

Why hasn't someone like Queer Alliance or National GLBTA done a 24-hour-a-day protest at the Westboro Church with signs that read "God Hates Fred Phelps" or "Gays are God's way of saying Fred Phelps is a Douche"?

 

[quixotecoyote]

Why hasn't someone like Queer Alliance or National GLBTA done a 24-hour-a-day protest at the Westboro Church with signs that read "God Hates Fred Phelps" or "Gays are God's way of saying Fred Phelps is a Douche"?

Probably because he's not worth the effort.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Why hasn't someone like Queer Alliance or National GLBTA done a 24-hour-a-day protest at the Westboro Church with signs that read "God Hates Fred Phelps" or "Gays are God's way of saying Fred Phelps is a Douche"?

I heard that Michael Moore actually did something like this at some point in the past. The way I heard it, when the WBC nutters went somewhere, Moore would follow them in a big, pink Winnebago and let out a bunch of scantily clad gay guys who would dance, bump-and-grind, and generally party where the nuts were protesting. I think he also played songs like "It's Raining Men" and "YMCA" over the loudspeakers at the same time

 

[BenBurch]

Following a non-precedent precedent, as it were?

 

[BenBurch]

I think we could invoke the "fighting words" doctrine, and just beat up on the Phelpses every time they show up at a funeral.

I'm in! I have an aluminum baseball bat I haven't used in years...

 

[hgc]

I saw a man on one of the cable talkshows claim that he'd met US soldiers in Afghanistan who expressed doubt about re-enlisting if something wasn't done to keep WBC from picketing funerals. I don't believe it, personally. I think someone is just whipping out the national security bugaboo as an excuse to move the law away from an interpretation of the constitution we had once thought we could count on.

It's always the same. A few weeks ago, Pat Buchanan was insisting on Scarborough that the president should forcefully stop that preacher in Fla from burning a Koran, and worry about the constitutional implications later. On the same show, in years past, you could hear consistent claims that the use of torture and indefinite, incognito detention was justified by the special circumstances.

 

[Puppycow]

Probably because he's not worth the effort.

I have remind myself to ignore him for the sake of my own mental health. Thinking about him always makes me so angry and full of violent fantasies about what I'd like to do to him. Then I remember that that's what he wants. What he doesn't want is to be ignored.

It doesn't help that the press keeps reminding everybody about his existence.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Counter protesters with bigger signs should surround the WBC group at each funeral protest and keep the mourners (and the media) from seeing the WBC group. The counter protesters shouldn't interact with the WBC people, just surround them and turn their backs on them while holding up their own signs.

The restraint that mourning families (and the motorcycle groups I've heard of that try to shield the families from the WBC at many funerals) show when the WBC protests at funerals amazes me.

I believe large sheets have been used before. Also motorcycle engines have been revved.

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Why hasn't someone like Queer Alliance or National GLBTA done a 24-hour-a-day protest at the Westboro Church with signs that read "God Hates Fred Phelps" or "Gays are God's way of saying Fred Phelps is a Douche"?

It's been done, although not 24 hours a day (that I know of).

 

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I heard that Michael Moore actually did something like this at some point in the past. The way I heard it, when the WBC nutters went somewhere, Moore would follow them in a big, pink Winnebago and let out a bunch of scantily clad gay guys who would dance, bump-and-grind, and generally party where the nuts were protesting. I think he also played songs like "It's Raining Men" and "YMCA" over the loudspeakers at the same time

It's on Youtube (which is blocked where I am at the moment).