Shut Up and Get Back In Line!

WildCat said:
They all will after the bill takes effect.

You've heard about the "must cover pre-existing conditions" part, haven't you?
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Two different things, you realize that right? I just got done buying insurance for my company. The process took several weeks and did not cover any period prior to them agreeing on our rate which had to go through the underwriting process. That's a wholly different question than a new law that says they have to accept us.

It's not the same as retroactive coverage and I'd love to see anything that says otherwise.

On this point you're way off.
 
Unabogie said:
Two different things, you realize that right? I just got done buying insurance for my company. The process took several weeks and did not cover any period prior to them agreeing on our rate which had to go through the underwriting process. That's a wholly different question than a new law that says they have to accept us.

It's not the same as retroactive coverage and I'd love to see anything that says otherwise.

On this point you're way off.
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What Unabogie said. If you can point out where they'll pay for the treatment that happened BEFORE coverage started, I'll retract my words.

But if not, it's just more scare mongering by the right and I'll continue to point it out.
 
defaultdotxbe said:
they can pay 3000 dollars for something they either dont think they need or cant afford, or pay an 800 dollar fine for not paying the 3000 dollars


once the law kicks in providers wont be able to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions
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$3000? Only if the insurance companies try to gouge everyone again. And there's already people who don't get health insurance. Fortunately, the new program will have assistance for those who can't afford it on their own or whose companies won't give it.

And once again, pre-existing conditions are not "treatment before coverage started". You really think any insurance company is going to pay my care from BEFORE the coverage kicks in? "Oh sure, we'll pay for the ER surgeons." No, they'll just pay for the recovery because the government will make them do what's right. Everything before that? Out of pocket. I suppose if it's less than the cost of insurance minus the fine, they'll come out ahead.
 
SezMe said:
ETA: Let's use the accident scenario. The guy's in traction and applies for insurance. The company has 30 days (I assume) to accept or reject his application. Suppose, in the good scenario, they accept. From that point on, they have to pay for his existing condition (i.e., broken bones, physical therapy, etc.) But I would not expect that they would have to pay for medical services up to the point of acceptance. If the window is really 30 days, they guy is either extremely rich or bankrupt.
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What you are going to see emerge is private insurance companies offering *gap* insurance to cover you during those 30 days (or whatever). And I predict the cost of that gap insurance plus the penalty for not buying the *government* insurance will still be less than the cost of having *government* insurance. ;)
 
BeAChooser said:
What you are going to see emerge is private insurance companies offering *gap* insurance to cover you during those 30 days (or whatever). And I predict the cost of that gap insurance plus the penalty for not buying the *government* insurance will still be less than the cost of having *government* insurance. ;)
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Gap insurance is not retroactive. Look up Assurant as an example. Again, no company will offer to pay for $500k in ER bills after you've accrued them. You guys are just way off.
 
Come on kids.....Uncle Glenn will never steer you wrong on HCR.



Didn't we argue about this last year?
 
BeAChooser said:
What you are going to see emerge is private insurance companies offering *gap* insurance to cover you during those 30 days (or whatever). And I predict the cost of that gap insurance plus the penalty for not buying the *government* insurance will still be less than the cost of having *government* insurance.
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I was thinking something similar before I read your post (although more along the lines of people purchasing policies with super high deductibles to cover the risk of some kind of catastrophic emergency room visit -- avoiding the tax penalty in the process -- and then switching over to plans with lower deductibles under the "no pre-existing conditions refused" rule when there are foreseeable medical expense).

Regardless, I think there are going to be lots of ways to game the system and I seriously doubt that the result will "bend the medical cost curve down" as promised.
 
Unabogie said:
Gap insurance is not retroactive.
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You misunderstood. I'm saying that a person will be able to purchase insurance policy (with monthly premiums) that will cover some portion of any costs that might be accrued during the gap between having a serious injury and being able to enroll on the government plan. That's what I meant by a "gap" policy.
 
BeAChooser said:
You misunderstood. I'm saying that a person will be able to purchase insurance policy (with monthly premiums) that will cover some portion of any costs that might be accrued during the gap between having a serious injury and being able to enroll on the government plan. That's what I meant by a "gap" policy.
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You can do that now. The problem is that gap insurance is flimsy as tissue paper. (See Insurance, Assurant)
 
WildCat said:
They all will after the bill takes effect.

You've heard about the "must cover pre-existing conditions" part, haven't you?
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Did you think that pre-existing conditions meant retroactive cover?

Pre-exisiting conditions are things like Crohn's disease, haemophilia, and other inborn errors, a roll of the genetic dice.

Quite recently, the five year old son of Dan Carlin was refused health insurance as he had hayfever, which could be considered a pre-existing condition.
 
BeAChooser said:
What you are going to see emerge is private insurance companies offering *gap* insurance to cover you during those 30 days (or whatever). And I predict the cost of that gap insurance plus the penalty for not buying the *government* insurance will still be less than the cost of having *government* insurance. ;)
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No.
 
Tatyana said:
Did you think that pre-existing conditions meant retroactive cover?

Pre-exisiting conditions are things like Crohn's disease, haemophilia, and other inborn errors, a roll of the genetic dice.

Quite recently, the five year old son of Dan Carlin was refused health insurance as he had hayfever, which could be considered a pre-existing condition.
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Not just those, though.

If you get raped,if you're a victim of domestic abuse, if you have acne, if you have asthma, if you have arthritis, and so on, you have a pre-existing condition.

Now, this has two wonderful benefits. First, you either get denied coverage or pay sky-high rates. Second, if you forget or neglect to include any of those conditions, even for something piddling like acne, the company can cut you off the insurance rolls when you make a claim for your cancer treatment.

It's an industry that is structurally driven to deny as much care as possible to as many people as possible. I voted Obama because he wasn't McCain, but I donated to his campaign because he promised to reform healthcare. I won't be donating again as the half-assed, watered down measures that got pushed through don't do anything to change the underlying structural problems.
 
Ysidro said:
$3000? Only if the insurance companies try to gouge everyone again. And there's already people who don't get health insurance. Fortunately, the new program will have assistance for those who can't afford it on their own or whose companies won't give it.
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so 3000/yr is a lot for health insurance? its less than my mom paid 15 years ago

And once again, pre-existing conditions are not "treatment before coverage started". You really think any insurance company is going to pay my care from BEFORE the coverage kicks in? "Oh sure, we'll pay for the ER surgeons." No, they'll just pay for the recovery because the government will make them do what's right. Everything before that? Out of pocket. I suppose if it's less than the cost of insurance minus the fine, they'll come out ahead.
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its not just accidents though, its everything. someone can just pay the 700 dollar fine every year, maybe see a doctor out of pocket once in a while, then when they get diagnosed with cancer or something serious they pick up insurance and the insurance has to pay for all their treatments

and in the case of accidents, any after care you get after the insurance kicks in would have be covered by the insurance even if the accident treatment itself isnt covered (and hospitals are still required to stabilize you whether you have insurance or not, so your good all ways around)
 
Ysidro said:
$3000? Only if the insurance companies try to gouge everyone again. And there's already people who don't get health insurance. Fortunately, the new program will have assistance for those who can't afford it on their own or whose companies won't give it.

And once again, pre-existing conditions are not "treatment before coverage started". You really think any insurance company is going to pay my care from BEFORE the coverage kicks in? "Oh sure, we'll pay for the ER surgeons." No, they'll just pay for the recovery because the government will make them do what's right. Everything before that? Out of pocket. I suppose if it's less than the cost of insurance minus the fine, they'll come out ahead.
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Don't worry, I'll sign the papers before I bleed out.
 
defaultdotxbe said:
so 3000/yr is a lot for health insurance? its less than my mom paid 15 years ago


its not just accidents though, its everything. someone can just pay the 700 dollar fine every year, maybe see a doctor out of pocket once in a while, then when they get diagnosed with cancer or something serious they pick up insurance and the insurance has to pay for all their treatments

and in the case of accidents, any after care you get after the insurance kicks in would have be covered by the insurance even if the accident treatment itself isnt covered (and hospitals are still required to stabilize you whether you have insurance or not, so your good all ways around)
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I'd love to pay only $3K a year. Min is about 4 times that...
 
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