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Considering the NPS official didn't Twitter, as that was the NBC reporter, perhaps you could explain what Twitter has to do with "evidence?" Then you can justify why you prefer the CBS hired guns to the NPS official's estimation.

NPS doesn't do estimates of crowd sizes anymore. So if you are referring to a reporter's tweet about what was allegedly said by a NPS employee off the record as the official NPS estimate than you are indeed using twitter as a source of evidence. I don't think twitter is a reliable source.

Calling them hired guns is just more intellectual dishonesty from you but I expect that so moving on... what is wrong with the methods used by CBS's "hired guns"?
 
It seemed the lame stream media wanted to characterize an event as "controversial" before the event took place. What specifically about the promotions for the event tipped off those in the media that is was going to be "controversial?" Now that the event is over, what was controversial about what occurred at the event?


I'm glad you asked.


King is an elder statesman of the progressive movement. Beck refers to the progressive movement as a cancer that has been destroying America for the past 100 years. Beck claimed that his followers would "reclaim the civil rights movement" and "pick up Martin Luther King's dream." MLK's dream included reparations for slavery that amounted to $50 billion paid out over 10 years.

Beck chose the anniversary and the location of MLK's most famous speech for his rally.

Are you telling me you really see no controversy at all in this juxtaposition of people?

.................

Oh and for the eighth time!. Please provide a citation for the 2,000,000 person estimate or admit that you made it up out of whole cloth and you cannot be trusted to provide accurate information. (or that you were simply joking)
 
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It seemed the lame stream media wanted to characterize an event as "controversial" before the event took place. What specifically about the promotions for the event tipped off those in the media that is was going to be "controversial?" Now that the event is over, what was controversial about what occurred at the event? The no arrests part?

I will grant that Beck's event was far less controversial than anticipated. Of course, it is hard to blame the media for hyping it as controversial considering the ever shifting focus and endless hyperbole Beck himself ascribed to the event. Remember "The Plan"?
 
Oh and for the eighth time!. Please provide a citation for the 2,000,000 person estimate or admit that you made it up out of whole cloth and you cannot be trusted to provide accurate information. (or that you were simply joking)

Perhaps he confused stories from last year's Beck rally with this year's? I just googled to try and find the source for 2M and only came up with stories from last year's march.
 
Perhaps he confused stories from last year's Beck rally with this year's? I just googled to try and find the source for 2M and only came up with stories from last year's march.

I suppose that is very possible. After all, the low end of the estimates that Cicero cited was 500,000. That number does seem strange because even the event organizers themselves said this event could have been as low as 350,000.
 
NPS doesn't do estimates of crowd sizes anymore. So if you are referring to a reporter's tweet about what was allegedly said by a NPS employee off the record as the official NPS estimate than you are indeed using twitter as a source of evidence. I don't think twitter is a reliable source.

Calling them hired guns is just more intellectual dishonesty from you but I expect that so moving on... what is wrong with the methods used by CBS's "hired guns"?

What is wrong with the method used by the NPS official even if it is off the record? He knows as much about the area the crowd was assembled at as airphotoslive. CBS's estimate is no more official than the NPS official.
 
1. Remove the unused and unusable space. Not just the reflection pool

The reflection pool isn't part of the 2029 x 800 foot area I used in that calculation.

but other monuments

Neither are any other monuments.

walking paths

You haven't shown that there are any walking paths in that area. And we certainly can't see any in view. In fact, everywhere you look you see thick crowds of people, obviously with no concern for keeping walkings paths clear.

bathrooms

Again, you haven't proven there are any bathrooms in that specific area. I certainly don't see any.

even vegitation.

Based on all the photos I've linked, there don't appear to be anything but trees in this region. Let's say there are three hundred trees (conservative), each with a diameter of 10 feet (conservative). That's a total of 300*100 sf tops. That is at most 300*100/2029/800 = 2% of the area. That is lost in the noise of the general calculation. Are you really this trusting of CBS? :rolleyes:

There is lots of other space on the mall that is not standing room.

But I accounted for that in my 200,000+ calculation. In fact, over most of the area, I used a figure of 10 - 20 sf per person, far below the Park Service's 2.5 sf per person figure for standing room only. And along the edge of the reflecting pool, the crowd is very clearly standing room only. And you don't seem to want to touch that calculation, even though it results in a figure of 81,000, almost as much as CBS claims for the entire mall.

2. The density varies throughout the mall. It will be a lot tighter the closer you get to the stage, thinning out on the way back.

None of the images I've linked show the crowd density next to the reflecting pool, "thinning out on the way back". Again, look at the 13th image at the following link: http://www.leftcoastrebel.com/2010/08/photos-aerial-pictures-of-glenn-beck.html . The density of the crowd is shoulder to shoulder all the way down the reflecting pool. If fact, look at the photos of the crowd on the far side of the pool from the podium that I linked. It's shoulder to shoulder. You're grasping for straws, Biscuit.

3. Look closely at photos of the event. The density of one person per 2.5 is no where near accurate or universal for the mall.

But I didn't use a density of 1 person per 2.5 sf for the entire mall. Why misrepresent what I clearly stated was my methodology above? Desperation?

Look how many people are sitting in lawn chairs. Those take up a great deal more than 2.5 square feet.

Sorry, I see no lawn chairs evident in ANY picture of the folks that are between the reflecting pool and the first rows of trees on either side. There are no lawn chairs in the group of people standing next to the reflecting pond on the near side of your linked photo. You are simply pointing out people on the large expanse of lawn between the Vietname Memorial and the Washington Monument, which I only counted in my estimate by using them to fill in the gaps in people on the large extent of lawn on the left side of the left row of trees in your photo.

4. Why won't you use the methods that the experts used?

And what exact method did they use? I bet you can't tell me. You can't even provide us a link to the exact photos they CLAIM to have used in their analysis. Because for some reason they apparently don't want to make them available. :D
 
I will grant that Beck's event was far less controversial than anticipated. Of course, it is hard to blame the media for hyping it as controversial considering the ever shifting focus and endless hyperbole Beck himself ascribed to the event. Remember "The Plan"?

But using the word "controversial" is editorializing. This brings us to how the lame stream media uses adjectives for people and events one side of the political spectrum, but omits such editorializing when the people and events are on the other side.


Glenn Beck is referred to as a "Controversial Conservative"

Al Sharpton is referred to as a "Civil Rights Leader"

CBS The Early Show:

NEWS ANCHOR JEFF GLOR: TV and radio host Glenn Beck is hosting a rally in Washington tomorrow, and it's taking place on the same day as the 47th anniversary of Martin Luther King's historic "I Have a Dream" speech. CBS News correspondent Whit Johnson is in Washington this morning with the latest on that. Whit, good morning.

WHIT JOHNSON: Jeff, good morning. Well, one rally will be hosted by civil rights leaders, one by controversial conservative talk show host Glenn Beck. But Beck insists the scheduling of his event -- on the very same day -- is nothing more than a coincidence.
 
I see lots of empty space in the foreground of that picture.

Why is everyone facing away from the Lincoln Memorial?

LOL! You don't even know what you are looking at, do you? :rolleyes:

Maybe this will help you understand?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/08/28/article-1306961-0AF38360000005DC-7_634x420.jpg

Three were lots of people in front of and on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial. And I counted NONE of them in my estimate of 200,000+ people. In fact, I counted noone who was behind the edge of the reflecting pool closest to the Lincoln Memorial in that total. Yet look how many people were in that region and off to the left of that region. :D
 
MLK's dream included reparations for slavery that amounted to $50 billion paid out over 10 years.

Instead, they got $10 TRILLION paid out over 45 years.

Please provide a citation for the 2,000,000 person estimate or admit that you made it up out of whole cloth and you cannot be trusted to provide accurate information.

Well Cicero provides that, perhaps you could supply a link to the photos that CBS claims were used to come up with their obviously bogus 86,000 estimate. :D
 
Oh and for the eighth time!. Please provide a citation for the 2,000,000 person estimate or admit that you made it up out of whole cloth and you cannot be trusted to provide accurate information. (or that you were simply joking)


"It's actually fairly simple math, getting the square footage and dividing that by some number of feet per person. A scary mosh pit is 2.5 square feet per person. That's about as tight as you can pack people, where they can't move--elevator tight.

If people up and down the Mall were crammed that tight, there could have been 2 million."


Steve Doig, a journalism professor at Arizona State University
 
What is wrong with the method used by the NPS official even if it is off the record? He knows as much about the area the crowd was assembled at as airphotoslive. CBS's estimate is no more official than the NPS official.

And what method did the off-the-record NPS official use?
The Wild Guess? The POOR* method?


*Pull Out Of Rectum
 
Now that Cicero has shown where the 2 million figure came from, can any of you who demanded that from him provide us with the exact methodology and the set of photos that CBS' *experts* claims to have used to come up with their obviously bogus 86,000 estimate? Hmmmmmm? :D
 
Now that Cicero has shown where the 2 million figure came from, can any of you who demanded that from him provide us with the exact methodology and the set of photos that CBS' *experts* claims to have used to come up with their obviously bogus 86,000 estimate? Hmmmmmm? :D

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20014993-503544.html

http://stevedoig.com/

This was already posted but you must have ignored it.

ETA: Cicero still hasn't shown where he got the 2 million figure for Beck's Rally from. The quote from Steve Doig is from last year and he was talking about Obama's inauguration.
 
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Mhaze, do you have a rebuttal?
Sure. You're repeating dronelike, mediamatters crap.

AS I SAID - it took me all of two minutes to calculate this matter including confidence intervals, thus I conclude that people who are dragging the discussion here have motives.
 
Now that Cicero has shown where the 2 million figure came from, can any of you who demanded that from him provide us with the exact methodology and the set of photos that CBS' *experts* claims to have used to come up with their obviously bogus 86,000 estimate? Hmmmmmm? :D

Well, it isn't the actual CBS methodology, but it does lay out a good way to think about counting the numbers...

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/8/29/897319/-Beck-rally-crowd-size-by-the-numbers

ETA: This, too, has been posted previously.
 
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Sure. You're repeating dronelike, mediamatters crap.

AS I SAID - it took me all of two minutes to calculate this matter including confidence intervals, thus I conclude that people who are dragging the discussion here have motives.

Okay, show your work, please. If it only took you two minutes to calculate, it should be no problem for you to lay out the entire set of calculations here.
 
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20014993-503544.html

http://stevedoig.com/

This was already posted but you must have ignored it.

ETA: Cicero still hasn't shown where he got the 2 million figure for Beck's Rally from. The quote from Steve Doig is from last year and he was talking about Obama's inauguration.

And these match with photos of other similar-sized crowds in that space, too.

Every group who does the Mall tries as hard as possible to inflate their numbers, because it makes them look to have more support than they really do.

And every group who opposes them tries to deflate the real numbers. I saw one estimate of that crowd as 20,000, which was obviously an attempt to do that.

These photo analysts seem to have gotten to within 20% or so of the real numbers, no matter what anybody wants to think.
 

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