Should Your ISP Be Allowed To Delay Your File Transfers?

They can have my unlimited porn downloads when they pry them from my cold, dead hands!!!


Ummm... try the other hand. That one's busy. :o
 
I don't think the cable companies really don't care about limiting the bandwidth you are using. The local cable company here claims they'll have "500 channels" available by the end of the year. They have so much bandwidth available, they are filling it with junk channels.

What they are really concerned about is what you are using that bandwidth to do. They don't want you to hook up your Netflix player or satellite receiver to the cable modem and access on-demand movies and TV shows. They are simply trying to eliminate competition.

-- Roger
 
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I don't think the cable companies really don't care about limiting the bandwidth you are using. The local cable company here claims they'll have "500 channels" available by the end of the year. They have so much bandwidth available, they are filling it with junk channels.

No because they are generaly only transmitting one channel at a time.


What they are really concerned about is what you are using that bandwidth to do. They don't want you to hook up your Netflix player or satellite receiver to the cable modem and access on-demand movies and TV shows. They are simply trying to eliminate competition.

-- Roger

250 GB is probably rather more DVDs (particularly if lossy compression is used) that most people watch in 2 months.
 
No because they are generaly only transmitting one channel at a time.

If they have 500 channels, they have to "broadcast" 500 channels to some point. I understand that all 500 channels wouldn't be going to each STB, but they still need a lot of bandwidth in their system (and they have it). I was just mentioning it to make the point that they aren't starving for bandwidth.

250 GB is probably rather more DVDs (particularly if lossy compression is used) that most people watch in 2 months.

I never said anything about "250 GB."

What I did say was that the cable companies are afraid of competition. They are using this issue as an excuse to introduce means of limiting that competition.

-- Roger
 
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What I did say was that the cable companies are afraid of competition. They are using this issue as an excuse to introduce means of limiting that competition.

-- Roger

I think you are on to something, and it bodes poorly for American innovation and technology.

Personally, I think there should be a new bill introduced which mandates certain consumer Network throughput standards.
The largest complaint I can see from the ISP's would be infrastructure cost, which could easily be absorbed by consumer contracts to at least recoup the initial costs.

I'd be happy to pay a little more and lock myself into a 2 year contract if I knew that at the end of the contract I could sign up with anyone else and engage in fair market competition.
 
If they have 500 channels, they have to "broadcast" 500 channels to some point. I understand that all 500 channels wouldn't be going to each STB, but they still need a lot of bandwidth in their system (and they have it). I was just mentioning it to make the point that they aren't starving for bandwidth.

Nope. At most they need enough bandwidth for one channel per person. The number of channels doesn't really matter.

I never said anything about "250 GB."

What I did say was that the cable companies are afraid of competition. They are using this issue as an excuse to introduce means of limiting that competition.

-- Roger

250GB is the limit they have put in. I've shown it doesn't limit the competition you mentioned.
 
Nope. At most they need enough bandwidth for one channel per person. The number of channels doesn't really matter.

As I said, I understand that all 500 channels wouldn't be going to each STB, but they still need a lot of bandwidth in their system (and they have it). For example, not everyone in my neighborhood will be watching the same channel and some will be using VoD. They need the bandwidth to deliver all those channels to the neighborhood (or wherever they have their switches).

Again, I was just mentioning that to show that they have an excess of bandwidth available.

250GB is the limit they have put in. I've shown it doesn't limit the competition you mentioned.

Not now ... but, this is just the first step towards tiered pricing in an attempt to limit competition.

-- Roger
 
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What bandwidth they may have available on their internal network isn't the issue though. Using that carries very little cost compared to traffic that goes over the internet.

The latter is where the bottleneck is. It was never intended that every single customer would max out his connection simultaneously. If the relationship between the connection speed sold to the customers and the actual backbone connection to the internet was 1:1, you would be paying a lot more for your connection. Likely more than people are willing to.
 
What bandwidth they may have available on their internal network isn't the issue though. Using that carries very little cost compared to traffic that goes over the internet.

You're right, but the statement about "every customer maxing out" isn't true. That's certainly not happening. Anyway, my point got sidetracked with the bandwidth issue which isn't relavant to what I was saying.

There is a fierce battle beginning to control access to your TV. Netflix and the satellite companies offer video over the internet and I just saw a DVD player in the store with a network interface. Cable companies are looking for ways to stop that kind of competition before it gets started. Threatening to charge based on usage is their first salvo in the war.

-- Roger
 
They can have my unlimited porn downloads when they pry them from my cold, dead ,sticky hands!!!
Fixed that for ya.

I remember reading some where that the ISPs are "girding their loins" for when video streaming media content goes high def.
 
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There is a fierce battle beginning to control access to your TV. Netflix and the satellite companies offer video over the internet and I just saw a DVD player in the store with a network interface. Cable companies are looking for ways to stop that kind of competition before it gets started. Threatening to charge based on usage is their first salvo in the war.
Well you may be right, but this kind of throttling and quotas is being done all over the world on all kinds of connections, to save money.
 
250 GB is probably rather more DVDs (particularly if lossy compression is used) that most people watch in 2 months.
If you're sticking with strictly DVD-quality video, then yes. However, if you're streaming High-Definition full 1080p video, it doesn't take very many before you start hitting that cap. No one offers that sort of video quality on a large scale yet, but with those sorts of bandwidth caps, no one is likely to.
What shocks me most of all is the fact that in many other industrialized countries outside of the U.S., the speed and available bandwidth even for basic internet service leaves America in shame;
For example,

Japanese Fiber: 100mbps
Japanaese Cable:30 mbps

American Fiber: 5mbps
Amerian DSL: 3mbps
American Cable: 8 mbps

We are far, far, slower than S.Korea, Finland, Sweden, and even Canada, who's average slowest connection is 8mbps.
The problem with this is 1) it's wrong; and 2) it's an apples-and-oranges comparison.

1) American ADSL2 fiber is available in an increasing number of urban areas, with speeds ranging up to 16 Mbps. Not as impressive as Japan, but there's nothing out there right now that can really take advantage of that kind of bandwidth on a user level (these lines are targetted at business users); and the fibre itself is capable of much higher throughput. Speed is currently limited only by server capacity.

2) High-speed data connections require close proximity to CO and CoLo node facilities. European countries, and small Asian countries like Japan and Korea have the majority of their population clustered around urban areas. Distances are very short, and it's much cheaper to upgrade older lines to handle larger amounts of information.

By contrast, the US has a much more dispersed population, with smaller centers and greater distances between them. Broadband uptake in much of the country is greatly limited by the distances involved.

Increasing the number of nodes isn't feasible, since it's not economical to install a new node, and the necessary backbone line and equipment, until a fairly substantial minimum number of users is reached. In some areas, local "mini-COs" are being set up for DSL use. But again, these require a minimum number of users; and are typically set up in new apartment/condo clusters, or large planned communities. Cable has a greater reach, and is less sensitive to line quality issues; but has shared-line traffic issues that DSL doesn't; and still requires a minimum user base in order ot be finacially feasible. Many of these same regions are also unable to receive cable broadband, for similar reasons; and rely on satellite television and Internet services, which are notorious for their high latency, variable quality of service, and low upstream speeds.

In the US, a lot of the lines are also very old, and of insufficient quality to carry high-speed DSL; particularly in the aforementioned non-urban regions. Many are also running through multiplexers, allowing the use of fewer backbones and longer distances from CO nodes. Upgrading the lines to higher-quality copper, or to fiber, and increasing the number of nodes is prohibitively expensive. Again, similar limitations apply to cable; and digital cable service is still not available in many areas due to the logistics issue.

Canada is an unusual situation: their geography is similar to the US; but their population is clustered around major uban centers as in Europe. Their high-speed broadband uptake in non-urban areas is as low, or lower than, the US; for similar reasons.
 
The above post is correct. I can get up to 120 Mbit within a few months (And yes these are targeted at private households, although many small businesses will also use them and of course many private people are more than happy with their 4 mbit and will keep those. )

But hey, we all live here together on a very small piece of land where the fibers are already in place or cheap to install.. I guess people in New York will be able to get similar connections in some time, but all the Homer Simpsons out there have less luck. (although I guess Homer Simpson doesn't need 120 mbit)

Liberty Takes 120 Mbit/s to the Dutch
 
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The above post is correct. I can get up to 120 Mbit within a few months (And yes these are targeted at private households, although many small businesses will also use them and of course many private people are more than happy with their 4 mbit and will keep those. )

But hey, we all live here together on a very small piece of land where the fibers are already in place or cheap to install.. I guess people in New York will be able to get similar connections in some time, but all the Homer Simpsons out there have less luck. (although I guess Homer Simpson doesn't need 120 mbit)

Liberty Takes 120 Mbit/s to the Dutch

And then there's this.
:jaw-dropp
 
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