Should we try Tsarnaev in the USA?

[triforcharity]

No, it's a very rational position to take.

No. In fact, it is the exact OPPOSITE of rational, as it's based on emotions and hurt feelings. Nothing about your position is rational.

You hold the ideal, and I consider the reality of the situation.

The ideal that we should abide by the laws set in this country, that have been in place for over 200 years, that people shouldn't be put on trial in the court of public opinion? Yes, I hold that ideal to be very very important, and one that should NEVER be deviated from, ever. Not for even the most scummy scumbags.

Here in rational law abiding reality, we all know that your proposal is absurd.

 

[newyorkguy]

Hasn't been for the last twenty years in my opinion.

Okay I'll agree with that!

 

[Babbylonian]

Well I don't see why we should go through the motions of a trial if he confessed, what is the point? Make a standard punishment for terrorist acts, if you get a confession, then follow through with that standard punishment and be done with it.

Exactly. You don't see why we should follow the procedures laid out in the laws of the land. That's your failure, not the system's.

Again, because it can't be stressed enough, we stop being a nation when we ignore our laws. It's bad enough when our government breaks them abroad in the interest of "national security" but doing so right here in what we want to be a great nation is a recipe for disaster.

The bottom line is that while it's been explained to you repeatedly why we should provide due process to any accused criminal, you have failed to make any kind of decent case for throwing it out the window in this case.

More people were killed and injured in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and somehow due process worked out just fine in that case.

 

[angrysoba]

It should to everyone. Why go through the motions with this guy if he confessed, now I'm hearing that his mother raised him that way and that she is also involved. I say put them all in a row boat to China to see if they can make it, it might turn into a real life version of The Life of Pi.

You obviously hate the American way of life. Maybe you should be put in the same rowing boat as Tsarnaev. Then it really would be Life of Pi-esque.

I say this because you keep arguing that this guy is obviously so anti-thetical to US way of life and yet to me that is you all over.

 

[varwoche]

Well I don't see why we should go through the motions of a trial if he confessed, what is the point? Make a standard punishment for terrorist acts, if you get a confession, then follow through with that standard punishment and be done with it.

Why stop there? Why go through the motions for any murderer who confesses? Same for rapists. Same for child abusers. Why should any of these loathsome people be entitled to a trial. Screw the constitution, what's the point? Standard punishment and be done with it.

Right?

 

[Toke]

Jodie,
You know, Judge Dread were intended as a dystopian story, not really something to strive for.

 

[Nessie]

Well I don't see why we should go through the motions of a trial if he confessed, what is the point? Make a standard punishment for terrorist acts, if you get a confession, then follow through with that standard punishment and be done with it.

Do that and he has successfully overturned the American way of life, so he wins, you lose.

 

[triforcharity]

Do that and he has successfully overturned the American way of life, so he wins, you lose.

Exactly. That puts us in the same category of the terrorists IMO. Circumventing the law to further a personal or political gain....

 

[Jodie]

Exactly. You don't see why we should follow the procedures laid out in the laws of the land. That's your failure, not the system's.

Again, because it can't be stressed enough, we stop being a nation when we ignore our laws. It's bad enough when our government breaks them abroad in the interest of "national security" but doing so right here in what we want to be a great nation is a recipe for disaster.

The bottom line is that while it's been explained to you repeatedly why we should provide due process to any accused criminal, you have failed to make any kind of decent case for throwing it out the window in this case.

More people were killed and injured in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and somehow due process worked out just fine in that case.

I don't know about that incident but the latest bombing of the Trade Center started a war that ended up contributing to our current economic situation. They should have just stuck with looking for those directly responsible, yet it took them 10 years to find Bin Laden, a 7 foot tall Arab on dialysis, I might add. That is stupid.

The specific people responsible for flying those planes in that case died with the victims, there was no one left to confess. I do remember them investigating the local cell groups and found that one training camp was right in my proverbial back yard. So why people are assuming that I would chunk everything about due process out the window is just a bad assumption. My point is if you have a confession, why bother?

 

[Babbylonian]

Actually, no it didn't, a war was started that ended up contributing to our current economic situation, yet it took them 10 years to find Bin Laden, a 7 foot tall Arab on dialysis, I might add. The specific people responsible for flying the planes died with the victims, there was no one left to confess. I do remember them investigating the local cell groups and found that one training camp was right in my proverbial back yard.

You would be advised to read the post before typing.

More people were killed and injured in the 1993 World Trade Center bombing and somehow due process worked out just fine in that case.

 

[Jodie]

You obviously hate the American way of life. Maybe you should be put in the same rowing boat as Tsarnaev. Then it really would be Life of Pi-esque.

I say this because you keep arguing that this guy is obviously so anti-thetical to US way of life and yet to me that is you all over.

Can I just point out that you are making a broad based assumption about someone because of about 20 posts in one thread on a forum?

I think it is you that has the issue here, I blew up no one, hurt no one, why put me on a boat in the Pacific simply because I disagree with you?

 

[Jodie]

Why stop there? Why go through the motions for any murderer who confesses? Same for rapists. Same for child abusers. Why should any of these loathsome people be entitled to a trial. Screw the constitution, what's the point? Standard punishment and be done with it.

Right?

Because every case is individual.Most of the time you don't have a confession and the evidence has to be examined.

 

[Jodie]

Exactly. That puts us in the same category of the terrorists IMO. Circumventing the law to further a personal or political gain....

In certain cases I support the laws that allow us to bypass certain formalities for the sake of "national security". This would be one of those cases.

Let me tell you how this has affected people in my area. I was at Belks in the jewelry dept. today shopping. While I was looking there were several other women around me also shopping the sales.

I have this submarine siren ring tone on my cell phone so that I can hear it above the CD player in my car when it rings. My phone rang and everyone stopped, looked confused, and I realized it was in response to my phone. When I showed them it was just my phone they all said they thought it was an alarm going off because terrorists had attacked the mall.

Not fire, mind you, a terrorist attack, so the terrorists have won already.

 

[Babbylonian]

In certain cases I support the laws that allow us to bypass certain formalities for the sake of "national security". This would be one of those cases.

But WHY? How is national security threatened by going through the standard criminal procedures that would be used to deal with anyone else?

 

[Jodie]

You would be advised to read the post before typing.

Yep, I reread and edited. Realized my error. I don't recall the details of the incident in 1993 as I was too young to really understand it all at the time. What I know about it is in relation to the bombing incident that brought the towers down.

 

[Jodie]

But WHY? How is national security threatened by going through the standard criminal procedures that would be used to deal with anyone else?

If you don't immediately question the person who confessed it gives whoever co-operated with him time to escape. Leads dry up and you won't be able to root out the problem. In the mean time more attacks could occur from the same group.

 

[Babbylonian]

If you don't immediately question the person who confessed it gives whoever co-operated with him time to escape. Leads dry up and you won't be able to root out the problem. In the mean time more attacks could occur from the same group.

Who has been arguing about that? There is a public safety exception to Miranda and it was exercised. We're talking about how the case is handled after he's been interviewed/interrogated, and you have previously argued that he shouldn't get the same due process as anyone else.

 

[Jodie]

The above person asked why skipping due process in certain cases of "national security" would make a difference, I answered the question.

If after he is interviewed and interrogated, and has confessed, what would be the point?

 

[triforcharity]

I don't know about that incident but the latest bombing of the Trade Center started a war that ended up contributing to our current economic situation.

1-no bombs. 2-not really.

They should have just stuck with looking for those directly responsible,

They were not talking much, they were dead.

yet it took them 10 years to find Bin Laden, a 7 foot tall Arab on dialysis, I might add. That is stupid.

You mean a 6'5" good kidney'd guy? Yeah, took a little while to find him, you know, being mobile and very smart, and in ANOTHER COUNTRY. Yes, I agree, the post is stupid.

The specific people responsible for flying those planes in that case died with the victims, there was no one left to confess.

Nope, you're right. Though their confession wasn't necessary at that point.

I do remember them investigating the local cell groups and found that one training camp was right in my proverbial back yard. So why people are assuming that I would chunk everything about due process out the window is just a bad assumption. My point is if you have a confession, why bother?

You do realize that what you've posted, it EXACTLY what we're talking about!! And you also realize that those two sentences are mutually exclusive, right? Oh, and a stundie!!

 

[triforcharity]

In certain cases I support the laws that allow us to bypass certain formalities for the sake of "national security". This would be one of those cases.

It's no longer a threat to national security. He's in a prison cell.

Let me tell you how this has affected people in my area. I was at Belks in the jewelry dept. today shopping. While I was looking there were several other women around me also shopping the sales.

I have this submarine siren ring tone on my cell phone so that I can hear it above the CD player in my car when it rings. My phone rang and everyone stopped, looked confused, and I realized it was in response to my phone. When I showed them it was just my phone they all said they thought it was an alarm going off because terrorists had attacked the mall.

Not fire, mind you, a terrorist attack, so the terrorists have won already.

Irrelevant. But, for the sake of argument, I'll play along. You were in the mall, right? We win. People are out and about, going about their normal business. I understand the on edge thing still. I experienced 9/11 first hand. I know all about it.