Should we repeal the 2nd Amendment?

[arthwollipot]

Your certitude is remarkable in light of your ignorance.

Nice edit of my post to remove the pertinent example.

 

[arthwollipot]

Actually, I was held up at gunpoint. And I was unarmed.

Why? Don't you have the right to defend yourself?

 

[jt512]

Nice edit of my post to remove the pertinent example.

Yeah, it's always the edit.

 

[jt512]

Why? Don't you have the right to defend yourself?

Why was I unarmed? For starters, I was 17.

And, FWIW, here in California, the process to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon currently takes about 9 months. You have to pass a background check, a police interview, a required training course, and a marksmanship test.

 

[Norman Alexander]

Why was I unarmed? For starters, I was 17.

And, FWIW, here in California, the process to get a permit to carry a concealed weapon currently takes about 9 months. You have to pass a background check, a police interview, a required training course, and a marksmanship test.

Let's say you were armed. How quickly would either you or your attacker be shot if you went for your piece?

 

[arthwollipot]

24 hours, seven mass shootings — as an election looms, what does a day of gun violence look like for the United States?

It is 1am on March 31, a week ago, when an unknown man opens fire on a group of young women celebrating a birthday in Chicago, Illinois.

WARNING: This story contains content that may be distressing for some readers.

The group are in their teens – among them is 19-year-old Arianna Murphy, who has only been at the party for a few minutes.

She has just graduated top of her class and is about to start nursing school.

A "smart and loving", "very outgoing person", her family says she has a vibrant energy and a signature smile.

She dies at the scene. Four others, all aged between 16 and 20 years old, are also shot and taken to hospital.

The gunman flees.

In the hours to come, nearby residents will go out into the street to scrub the blood from the cement themselves.

It is the first mass shooting of the day. There are six more to come.

How do you propose this situation be addressed?

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Not always, but many. Even if they are outlawed it still won't prevent mass shootings. Maybe a lower death count, but it's still going to happen.

Gun law reform would probably help, but it doesn't prevent the phenomenon of disturbed people.

I'm living in a country where we have banned all assault weapons, all guns apart from single or double bore 12guage shotguns or single fire .22 rifles are prohibited to the public (with a very few exceptions).

With the exception of loyalist terrorist bomings during the troubles the only mass murder events in the last hundred years happened during the civil war.

Banning certain types of weapons and enforcing said bans does greatly restrict the scope for killing whether single or mass events.

 

[jt512]

Let's say you were armed. How quickly would either you or your attacker be shot if you went for your piece?

In the situation that I was in, you don’t go for your gun. You first disarm the attacker if you have that skill (I don’t…yet). If you don’t have that skill, you comply with the assailant and hope for the best.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Whether they are or not, it doesn't logically follow that banning assault weapons would reduce mass shootings. It very well might, but it doesn't necessary follow that it would.

Given that all the evidedence refutes your claim (viz countries with effective assault weapons bans have much lower incidents of shootings, mass or otherwise), your logic is defective to be charitable.

 

[jt512]

24 hours, seven mass shootings — as an election looms, what does a day of gun violence look like for the United States?

How do you propose this situation be addressed?

I don’t know. But whatever the solution is, it isn’t going to happen tomorrow. Until the problem is solved, I’m going to do what is necessary to be able to defend myself and my loved ones against those who would use lethal force against me or them.

 

[arthwollipot]

...You first disarm the attacker if you have that skill (I don’t…yet). If you don’t have that skill, you comply with the assailant and hope for the best.

Same here.

 

[arthwollipot]

I don’t know. But whatever the solution is, it isn’t going to happen tomorrow. Until the problem is solved, I’m going to do what is necessary to be able to defend myself and my loved ones against those who would use lethal force against me or them.

And how is that not just perpetuating the problem?

Oh yes - sorry. You're not the one doing the mass shootings. Only other people are.

Well guess what? It's not about you.

 

[Norman Alexander]

In the situation that I was in, you don’t go for your gun. You first disarm the attacker if you have that skill (I don’t…yet). If you don’t have that skill, you comply with the assailant and hope for the best.

So what's the reason for being armed for self-defence again?

 

[acbytesla]

Jt512 demonstrates why owning firearms for protection is problematic.

You're either carrying all the time, you're untrained. Or you're unlikely to ever actually need it and it is more a big pain in the ass. Or everyone carries and we turn the modern world into the Wild West, where arguments devolve into killings.

 

[arthwollipot]

I also think that it's extremely unrealistic for someone to be capable of reacting in a high-pressure deadly attack situation quickly enough and rationally enough to draw and fire a gun before their attacker can incapacitate them.

You're carrying for self defence. You see someone with a gun point it at you. Do you really think you can draw and fire your gun before they do?

That's not just wild west cowboy thinking, that's "I'm as fast as Wild Bill Hickock" cowboy thinking.

 

[acbytesla]

I also think that it's extremely unrealistic for someone to be capable of reacting in a high-pressure deadly attack situation quickly enough and rationally enough to draw and fire a gun before their attacker can incapacitate them.

You're carrying for self defence. You see someone with a gun point it at you. Do you really think you can draw and fire your gun before they do?

That's not just wild west cowboy thinking, that's "I'm as fast as Wild Bill Hickock" cowboy thinking.

That's what I meant by training. My best friend is a police training officer in Seattle. He talks about how police officers frequently fail in high stress situations despite having undergone training.

Here's a highly trained police officer of 20 years who always carries a firearm on the job and never does when he's off the clock. He thinks carrying a deadly weapon is asking for trouble.

 

[Thermal]

I also think that it's extremely unrealistic for someone to be capable of reacting in a high-pressure deadly attack situation quickly enough and rationally enough to draw and fire a gun before their attacker can incapacitate them.

You're carrying for self defence. You see someone with a gun point it at you. Do you really think you can draw and fire your gun before they do?

That's not just wild west cowboy thinking, that's "I'm as fast as Wild Bill Hickock" cowboy thinking.

While you have a point about the Quick Draw McGraw scenario, there are other scenarios, you know. You want me to.pull up the mall shooter that was taken out by an armed customer? Or the liquor store holdups that got stopped by another armed customer?

Also, just generally: are your odds better against literally any armed attacker if you are also armed, or just have your dick in your hand? I'm gonna go ahead and say having something is better than having nothing. Small advantage is better than relying on browbeating your armed attacker into submission.

Eta: also, a mugger or rapist doesn't always want to murder, or even fire the gun to draw attention. He just wants to get compliance. You might stand a chance to get the drop on him if he is hesitant and you are not, even with him drawing first (or if you are already alert to him being a threat and draw just after his gun comes into view, when he is preparing to threaten you, not shoot. Split seconds can work in your favor).

 

[Thermal]

That's what I meant by training. My best friend is a police training officer in Seattle. He talks about how police officers frequently fail in high stress situations despite having undergone training.

Here's a highly trained police officer of 20 years who always carries a firearm on the job and never does when he's off the clock. He thinks carrying a deadly weapon is asking for trouble.

I'm never going to carry based on the logic that I've never been in a gunfight, but if I was carrying, I probably would have been in several. A couple bruises heal faster than gunshot wounds, I hear.

 

[acbytesla]

While you have a point about the Quick Draw McGraw scenario, there are other scenarios, you know. You want me to.pull up the mall shooter that was taken out by an armed customer? Or the liquor store holdups that got stopped by another armed customer?

Also, just generally: are your odds better against literally any armed attacker if you are also armed, or just have your dick in your hand? I'm gonna go ahead and say having something is better than having nothing. Small advantage is better than relying on browbeating your armed attacker into submission.

Eta: also, a mugger or rapist doesn't always want to murder, or even fire the gun to draw attention. He just wants to get compliance. You might stand a chance to get the drop on him if he is hesitant and you are not, even with him drawing first (or if you are already alert to him being a threat and draw just after his gun comes into view, when he is preparing to threaten you, not shoot. Split seconds can work in your favor).

I grant you all of that. But unless you're a gun nut you almost certainly won't be packing. Carrying a gun is a pain in the ass. You certainly aren't welcome in my house or place of business if you have a gun on your hip.

I know that the odds are if you have a firearm, you won't be using it on some stranger, but far more likely on a friend, a fellow employee, a family member or on yourself. Or your kids will.

And in the very unlikely situation where you might be facing a violent criminal there's a high probability that you'll just get yourself killed.

But I can certainly understand why it might make you "feel" safer.

 

[jrhowell]

Eta: also, a mugger or rapist doesn't always want to murder, or even fire the gun to draw attention. He just wants to get compliance. You might stand a chance to get the drop on him if he is hesitant and you are not, even with him drawing first (or if you are already alert to him being a threat and draw just after his gun comes into view, when he is preparing to threaten you, not shoot. Split seconds can work in your favor).

That sounds completely insane to me. Risking your life on the chance that you are more of a bad ass than the person who pulled a gun on you!

Better if neither of us has a gun.