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Should the police be allowed to lie?

Obviously there is nuance. I think we can all agree that perjury and falsification of official documents are both unacceptable, as are things like lying to get a judge to sign a search warrant.

But what about other kinds of dishonesty and misrepresentation?

Undercover work. Should police be allowed to misrepresent themselves as members of a criminal subculture, in order to obtain evidence and effect arrests? I think they should. Obviously there probably need to be some ethical guard rails, though.
In general, no problem with this. But, yes, safeguards are needed.
Fake attractions. There's a famous story of the US Marshals mailing some kind of sweepstakes award thing to a long list of wanted individuals, and then arresting everyone who showed up to collect. Should that kind of dishonesty be permitted to law enforcement? I think so.
As long as there is already a valid warrant, fine.
Lying during interrogation. Should the the police be allowed to encourage a confession, by telling the suspect that they already know the truth, or that their accomplice has already confessed, or things like that, even when they aren't true? I think they should.
Saying something in general and vague: "We know you did it." fine. But any references to evidence: " Your friend already said..." or "We are testing DNA now..." "We have your fingerprints...." should have to be actually true. The police should not get to present or allude to non-existant evidence in any legal proceeding, including an interrogation. It can lead to false confessions, or corners a subject into fabricating a story to exp-lain away fabricated evidence. Basically, it encourages dishonesty.
False promises to obtain cooperation. Should police be allowed to reassure suspects that they aren't in trouble, or that they aren't about to be arrested, if it will encourage the suspect to remain calm and cooperative long enough to arrest them with a minimum of fuss? I'm not sure about this one.
OK, as presented, you seem to be talking about a field tool to get someone to come outside, put down the weapon, or hand over the child etc. in order to be able to defuse an immediately volatile situation. I can see that. I'm not sure anything the subject says during this process should be used in prosecution, however.

But in terms of interrogation, absolutely not.

First, the police should not be able to offer leniency ever. That should be the domain of the prosecutors only, and the police can't speak for them.

Second, plea deals are problematic anyway. "If you cooperate, you can plead to this and get 2 years, but if you don't and you're convicted you could get 10 years" creates a risk to asserting and maintaining your innocence. One should never be discouraged from attempting to demonstrate their innocence. This is why innocent people sometimes plead guilty.
Drug-sniffing dogs. To me, this seems like the biggest scam. We've known forever that a trained animal will take cues from its handler's body language, and generate false positives pretty much on demand. Every time I see a traffic stop where they bring out a K9 to sniff for drugs so they can justify searching the vehicle? All I can think is, "it's a scam!" Drugs or no drugs, the cop can probably get their dog to "alert" whenever and wherever they want, just by shifting their feet. That said, at least sometimes they do need to find contraband more or less where the dog "alerted". So I dunno. Say you're a cop, you know the driver of the car almost certainly has felony amount of meth somewhere near the driver's seat. So you bring in the K9 unit, have them alert anywhere on the front left quarter of the car, and now you have probable cause to search for the drugs you already knew (but couldn't prove!) were there. So I guess maybe the proof is in the pudding?
Drug sniffing dogs should only be allowed in a search after probable cause is determined. They should not be the source of probable cause. In other words, they should be a tool for the search, not a reason for the search.



This thread is intended for policy discussion, not examples of bad behavior. We already have threads for that stuff, so if you must drag your hobby horse into this one, please have the courtesy to get it over with fast, and actually engage with the policy discussion in good faith at some point. Thanks in advance!

The police have already created an atmosphere of distrust. Deception just exacerbates that distrust. Therefore, deception should be used sparingly and only in limited circumstances.
 
Undercover work. Should police be allowed to misrepresent themselves as members of a criminal subculture, in order to obtain evidence and effect arrests?
No. Undercover work has severe moral hazards, and modern surveillance techniques make it largely redundant.

Fake attractions. There's a famous story of the US Marshals mailing some kind of sweepstakes award thing to a long list of wanted individuals, and then arresting everyone who showed up to collect. Should that kind of dishonesty be permitted to law enforcement? I think so.
Mailing fake sweepstakes sounds like fraud. If they know where the people live, why not just turn up there and arrest them?

Lying during interrogation. Should the the police be allowed to encourage a confession, by telling the suspect that they already know the truth, or that their accomplice has already confessed, or things like that, even when they aren't true? I think they should.
No. That encourages false confessions.
False promises to obtain cooperation. Should police be allowed to reassure suspects that they aren't in trouble, or that they aren't about to be arrested, if it will encourage the suspect to remain calm and cooperative long enough to arrest them with a minimum of fuss? I'm not sure about this one.
Having been lied to by police in order to get cooperation, I say no. I will never trust them again after that. Multiply that mistrust by a few million and you see the problem.

Of course they should be allowed - actually encouraged - to calm suspects down, but it should be done honestly.

Drug-sniffing dogs. To me, this seems like the biggest scam.
Not the biggest scam, but yes it's a scam.

How Accurate are Drug Sniffing K-9s?
The study covered over 94,000 drug related searches that took place in New South Wales. There was an overwhelming majority of searches that did not accurately identify the presence of an illegal substance. Between 2013 and June 30, 2023, the study found that nearly 71,000 searches prompted by drug sniffing dogs resulted in no illicit drugs being found.

A U.S. based study was conducted by the Chicago Tribune, which focused on three years of cases where law enforcement employed drug sniffing dogs to search for illicit substances out of cars in suburban Chicago. The result of the study found that out of all the cases where the K-9s alerted their handler about suspicious vehicles, only 44 percent of them were accurate in finding drugs.
Flipping a coin would have been more accurate. I think we can agree that this would be an illegal search criteria, but the worse thing is it that it intimidates innocent citizens. It can also be the first step in setting them up.

I see no problem using dogs to sniff out drugs in places that the police are allowed to search anyway (eg. airport luggage, crime scenes) though the NSW data seems to suggest the dogs are wasting a lot of police time.
 
Has anyone suggested that police shouldn't be allowed to lie?
I am. Lying causes mistrust. Not just in the police, but authority in general. Such mistrust puts our entire society at risk. It also excuses lying by others, which is not good for society either. We can't make lying a crime in general, but it should be discouraged as much as possible. The police should be showing a good example by being scrupulously honest.
 
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No. Undercover work has severe moral hazards...
I covered a few of them in another thread.

Mailing fake sweepstakes sounds like fraud.
It doesn't meet the legal definition, according to courts. But it is clearly deceptive. It fails to be fraud because the subjects do not suffer legally cognizable damage by being taken in custody pursuant to a lawfully obtained arrest warrant. You can certainly contest the reasons why the warrant was issued, but an officer does not injure you legally by executing one against you.

If they know where the people live, why not just turn up there and arrest them?
Where people receive their mail is not always where they live. But the biggest reason is that it's far easier, cheaper, and safer to bring hundreds of suspects into your controlled environment than to send officers to the suspects' individual controlled environments.

No. That encourages false confessions.
Once a confession has been extracted—even a false one—a defense attorney's job becomes exponentially more difficult. Police and prosecutors know this and rely upon it.
 
Where people receive their mail is not always where they live. But the biggest reason is that it's far easier, cheaper, and safer to bring hundreds of suspects into your controlled environment than to send officers to the suspects' individual controlled environments.
This. A possible public shootout is kinda sorta less desirable than the guy waltzing into your office, expecting a check and not expecting armed LEOs with home field advantage.

And having a last known address doesn't mean a freaking criminal on the run from a warrant is still hanging out there, but there may be someone there who has his cel and will pass info along.
 
it's far easier, cheaper, and safer to bring hundreds of suspects into your controlled environment than to send officers to the suspects' individual controlled environments.
Fair enough. However,
Operation Flagship
The fugitives were wanted for various felonies including assault, robbery, burglary, escape, narcotics violations, rape, arson, fraud, or a combination thereof. Of the 3,000 people who were sent invitations, 167 replied positively to the invitation.
That's a response rate of just 5.6%.
Reporters from CBS and the Los Angeles Times were specifically invited by the marshals to document and publicize the operation.
As a law-enforcement strategy it wasn't very effective. Good publicity though. Or was it?
https://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/...d-by-the-simpsons-to-catch-criminals/1865991/
Police Inspired by The Simpsons to Catch Criminals
Sheriff's deputies in La Mirada attempted a rope-a-dope on some alleged criminals by offering them a fake sweepstakes prize. Out of the 960 letters sent to these "people of interest" only eight showed up... "It's not the numbers we wanted," Los Angeles sheriff's Capt. Patrick Maxwell told the newspaper
Less than 1% now. Perhaps if it wasn't such a well-known ruse...
 
That's a response rate of just 5.6%.
True, but the article goes on to say that each arrest as part of the ruse cost only about one-tenth of a normal arrest. If the cost-per-arrest stay below the cost of an ordinary arrest, it's still an option.

Less than 1% now. Perhaps if it wasn't such a well-known ruse...
Sure, as soon as an enforcement tactic becomes well known, it will stop being effective.
 
Everyone can share their horror story of police malfeasance. But the police frequently use lying just to figure out what happened. They are very aware that those whom they interrogate are often being deceptive.

The trial of George Zimmerman for the shooting of Trayvon Martin revealed that the police lied to Zimmerman during his interrogation. They told him the entire interaction had been caught on video. Immediately, his reaction was one of great relief, not fear. (Recall he had told the police he was getting pummeled by Martin, who was on top of him.)

That reaction, and a plethora of other evidence, led the DA to (correctly) not want to charge him.
Indeed, the chief investigator, Chris Serino, testified under oath—under cross-examination by the defense—that he believed Zimmerman.


(CNN reported at the end of that day of testimony that it was “another bad day for the prosecution”.)

So clearly, the lie aided the police in their investigation.

(Note, it was only after the case had become politicized that an outside prosecutor was brought in to charge George Zimmerman with second-degree murder; Zimmerman was, of course, ultimately acquitted.)

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...stigators-confrontation-martin-flna6c10510637
 
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But the police frequently use lying just to figure out what happened. They are very aware that those whom they interrogate are often being deceptive.
And that's the rub. They treat the innocent as if they were the guilty parties that the police are so certain they really are, but just being 'deceptive'. Now that innocent person knows the police are liars, and cannot be trusted. Now you've created another chunk of the public who is reinforced not to trust the lying police. And that reinforcement is factual, not based on imagination or reputation.
 

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