Should sanctuary cities be tolerated?

ponderingturtle said:
Hence why we sent the jews back to Germany so they could do the immigration thing the right way.

Face it you would totally have been against letting in the passengers of the St Louis stay in the US.
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Nope, i believe in being kind and welcoming and generous to minority groups facing extinction.
 
ponderingturtle said:
But they were not facing that in 1939, keep your dates straight in your head, you would have sent them back to Hitler and been fine with it.
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Jews were facing massive discrimination, pogroms where hundreds of Jews were killed, ghettoization, and Hitler had been talking about exterminating the Jews for almost a decade. There was no question what was coming.

And your statement against me is a pretty hateful and disgusting thing to say to a Jew.

You sir, are a bigot.
 
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bruto said:
If you'd predicted extinction then, you'd likely have been accused of "premature anti-fascism," which is not a term I just made up! And judging from body of work, you'd do well to think seriously about which group you'd have been in back then.
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I am not the topic of this thread, stop personalizing the thread.
 
Hercules56 said:
Jews were facing massive discrimination, pogroms where hundreds of Jews were killed, ghettoization, and Hitler had been talking about exterminating the Jews for almost a decade. There was no question what was coming.

And your statement against me is a pretty hateful and disgusting thing to say to a Jew.

You sir, are a bigot.
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I disagree. In retrospect we all know what the right thing to do would have been. And certainly those who were aware of what was going on, and not subscribing to the popular accounts, predicted it. And of course, if you are a Jew you might have differed from the majority for reasons of affiliation, in addition, if we're feeling generous, to reasons of being better informed. But for those in the mainstream, knowing and believing then what was known and believed by the majority, I think there's little difference between turning away the refugees from Germany then than there is now in turning away the refugees from, say, Haiti.

And please remember, those who condemn the turning away of German Jewish refugees in 1939 are not the bigots here. The people who did it are the bigots, and speculating on who might or might not have been among them is not bigotry even if it's mistaken.

No, of course you yourself are not the topic of this thread, but your opinions certainly are. This thread, which you began, is about your opinions, which you have not been at all shy about expressing. If, as some believe, these opinions vary with regard to who the refugees are and what group they belong to, then that's relevant, even if it's distasteful.

e.t.a. I notice you refer to "hundreds" as a meaningful number. I certainly think it is, and then some, and should have been, but am curious whether you've settled on a number of wrongful deportations, politically motivated arrests, and other so-called errors, would be for today's problems.
 
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bruto said:
I disagree. In retrospect we all know what the right thing to do would have been. And certainly those who were aware of what was going on, and not subscribing to the popular accounts, predicted it. And of course, if you are a Jew you might have differed from the majority for reasons of affiliation, in addition, if we're feeling generous, to reasons of being better informed. But for those in the mainstream, knowing and believing then what was known and believed by the majority, I think there's little difference between turning away the refugees from Germany then than there is now in turning away the refugees from, say, Haiti.

And please remember, those who condemn the turning away of German Jewish refugees in 1939 are not the bigots here. The people who did it are the bigots, and speculating on who might or might not have been among them is not bigotry even if it's mistaken.

No, of course you yourself are not the topic of this thread, but your opinions certainly are. This thread, which you began, is about your opinions, which you have not been at all shy about expressing. If, as some believe, these opinions vary with regard to who the refugees are and what group they belong to, then that's relevant, even if it's distasteful.
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I have made it ◊◊◊◊ ing abundantly clear in this thread and this forum that when it comes to people seeking refuge from severe discrimination and persecution due to their race/ethnicity/politics, I believe there should be a special privilege given to them in the USA, since their lives are in danger.

YOU and others keep ignoring that, cuz it disrupts & conflicts with your agenda against me.

Kinda hard to paint me as an anti-immigrant bigot, when I gladly and fully support a generous and large asylum policy for people fleeing persecution due to who they are.
 
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Hercules56 said:
I have made it ◊◊◊◊ ing abundantly clear in this thread and this forum that when it comes to people seeking refuge from severe discrimination and persecution due to their race/ethnicity/politics, I believe there should be a special privilege given to them in the USA, since their lives are in danger.

YOU and others keep ignoring that, cuz it disrupts & conflicts with your agenda against me.

Kinda hard to paint me as an anti-immigrant bigot, when I gladly and fully support a generous and large asylum policy for people fleeing persecution due to who they are.
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You have made it clear how you think things ought to be, which is fine. It's too bad you're not in charge, because how things ought to be is not how they are, and unfortunately your ideas of how we ought to act or to feel in the presence of what actually exists seem a poor match.

We once had a policy giving temporary protected status to fleeing Haitians as well as some other countries. That sanctuary has been withdrawn. According to your statement in the past that all illegal immigrants should be tossed out, that includes a half million or so Haitians who were once legal but no longer are, as well as Cubans and others. Your statement that all immigrants, legal and illegal, are conditional guests and subject to deportation for any reason or none extends to the visible phenomenon we are seeing right now of not only temporary but permanent resident aliens being deported or threatened with deportation for their political opinions alone.

I have never painted you as an anti-immigrant bigot, and in fact have been taken to task by some here for that, but I do think your utterances here display a blurring between what ought to be and what is, and a complacency about how to behave in the world that actually surrounds us. If I actually thought you were a common garden variety anti-immigrant bigot, I'd likely say "◊◊◊◊ you" and ignore your posts. But if ignoring would be preferable, that can be arranged.
 
bruto said:
You have made it clear how you think things ought to be, which is fine. It's too bad you're not in charge, because how things ought to be is not how they are, and unfortunately your ideas of how we ought to act or to feel in the presence of what actually exists seem a poor match.

We once had a policy giving temporary protected status to fleeing Haitians as well as some other countries. That sanctuary has been withdrawn. According to your statement in the past that all illegal immigrants should be tossed out, that includes a half million or so Haitians who were once legal but no longer are, as well as Cubans and others. Your statement that all immigrants, legal and illegal, are conditional guests and subject to deportation for any reason or none extends to the visible phenomenon we are seeing right now of not only temporary but permanent resident aliens being deported or threatened with deportation for their political opinions alone.

I have never painted you as an anti-immigrant bigot, and in fact have been taken to task by some here for that, but I do think your utterances here display a blurring between what ought to be and what is, and a complacency about how to behave in the world that actually surrounds us. If I actually thought you were a common garden variety anti-immigrant bigot, I'd likely say "◊◊◊◊ you" and ignore your posts. But if ignoring would be preferable, that can be arranged.
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I do not support treating people who formally had protected status, like regular illegal aliens who knowingly broke the law.

As far as I am concerned anyone who came to the USA and was allowed in due to political or other persecution, should be allowed to maintain that status forever. Unless it can be thoroughly determined that the situation in their former country is now perfectly safe. I don't believe that is the situation in Cuba or Haiti or Venezuela. Trump just wants to get rid of Latino people.
 
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Hercules56 said:
I do not support treating people who formally had protected status, like regular illegal aliens who knowingly broke the law.

As far as I am concerned anyone who came to the USA and was allowed in due to political or other persecution,
should be allowed to maintain that status forever. Unless it can be thoroughly determined that the situation in their former country is now perfectly safe. I don't believe that is the situation in Cuba or Haiti or Venezuela. Trump just wants to get rid of Latino people.
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Two things here. One is that if the special status has been totally withdrawn, and quotas reached, that means that the chance has been missed. Unless one presumes that the persecution came to an end, we are left with the question of how those now seeking asylum in the more conventional way, i.e. by entering and then asking for asylum, differ from those who got in before the deadline.

The main problem I see is in that "should." We can't always get what we want. Do we just say "Tough luck?" We can write our congressman, I guess, but they can't.
 
Hercules56 said:
Jews were facing massive discrimination, pogroms where hundreds of Jews were killed, ghettoization, and Hitler had been talking about exterminating the Jews for almost a decade. There was no question what was coming.

And your statement against me is a pretty hateful and disgusting thing to say to a Jew.

You sir, are a bigot.
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How am I a bigot, I am just pointing out that many of the people who failed to meet the standards you want in the past we now regret(well forget more) that we turned them away. Hell there was no large scale acceptance of Jewish refugees in the US even when we knew the holocaust was happening from decoded German messages in the war.

No one wanted the jews and you would have been just like the vast majority of Americans who did not support granting them asylum.
 
ponderingturtle said:
How am I a bigot, I am just pointing out that many of the people who failed to meet the standards you want in the past we now regret(well forget more) that we turned them away. Hell there was no large scale acceptance of Jewish refugees in the US even when we knew the holocaust was happening from decoded German messages in the war.

No one wanted the jews and you would have been just like the vast majority of Americans who did not support granting them asylum.
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I fully support granting asylum to people facing persecution and genocide.
 
thaiboxerken said:
Unless The Regime says they weren't facing persecution and genocide. Amiright?
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No I would not trust the Trump administration to make such a determination and consider it to be fair and just. He and his minions are clearly racist. I would want the United Nations and the European Union to chime in.
 
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Hercules56 said:
No I would not trust the Trump administration to make such a determination and consider it to be fair and just. He and his minions are clearly racist. I would want the United Nations and the European Union to chime in.
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Do I understand, you want the UN and the EU, to decide whether and how many asylum seekers the US should accept?
 
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