Should rape carry a potential life sentence?

[The Norseman]

Yes.
Saying "To be clear: you would all rather that we get life in prison for theft of a $50 watch for a whole lot of people than an extremely rare Brock Turner by taking away all discretion of the judge (which is exactly what they're there for) and instilling mandatory minimums which cannot distinguish the details from one another because "it feels better" is very, very hysterical and bizarre.

Nice one. That I fell for this distraction is all on me.

Your ad hom here and the continued ad hominems nonetheless does not detract from your ignoring of my questions nor why you would use as an example, a rich white guy.

I can't possibly understand how "sentencing guidelines" are okay but "minimum sentences" set you off to this degree.

You mind stop personalizing this? You should know better. Whether or not I'm "set off" is irrelevant and a distraction.

Legislatures have a right to be involved in the sentencing process to some degree.

They have already by setting the original minimum and maximums for crimes in general. Taking one or two crimes and deciding that there should be a higher minimum means that the judge no longer has discretion to adjust the penalty to the lower end or what would have been the lower end until emotions ride high and legislators decide to step in and punish even more.

The system is in place for a reason. Why have judges at all then, if the legislators know more about sentencing than the judges themselves?

They place a specific restriction on one part of sentencing for specific crimes.

I'm not saying I'm always in favor of mandatory minimums, I think they need to be applied carefully both in terms of what that minimum is and how clearly the conditions are defined, but I think it's a bit silly to say that being in favor of a mandatory minimum of some sort for rape is the same as saying I want to "willing to crush the many in the hopes of catching the one" or any of the other strange comparisons you made.

Silly. Strange. Bizarre. Hysterical.

All to avoid facing the actual points even after I've clarified them.

Justice is all about feelings.

I'm the bad guy because I'm passionate about the failing criminal justice system and universally derided and mocked in this thread and you come up with this nonsense?

Yeah. Okay.

There are no scientific formulas for justice.

Bull. ****.

Feelings are pretty much the only thing driving the "criminal justice" system today where we incarcerate more people than China or Russia; we treat prisoners like non-human scum and all of this only hurts minorities and the lower classes.

Bingo. There are some people here who seem to think that it's desireable that we humans strive to behave like machines. And are convinced that at some point we will. Because logic... I guess?

Wait! You forgot to call me a Vulcan too!

Yeah... about all that wonderful feel-good, warmth in the belly, fuzziness of massive incarceration with steeper and steeper jail sentences and treating prisoners and ex-cons as sub-human...

...how's that been working out for ya so far? Tough on crime, War on Drugs, child "superpredators" (betcha all forgot about that one), death penalty...

This is too funny. I couldn't write it better! I'm apparently an emotional wreck on the one hand when I use hyperbole to make a point, but a cold, emotionless robot on the other when I think that justice needs to be impartial and fair. Silly me for trying to keep up.

But according to kellyb, it's all about the feels, baby! Electrocute them all! Try and disguise vengeance with a teeny figleaf of justice and stand proud with your brothers and sisters in feeling good that you're cleaning up society!

Good luck to them. I've got a feeling (heh...) they're setting themselves up for a lot of disappointment.

Oh! You've got a "feeling"!! HAHAHAHAHAHA

Great one! Wow. I got that sly joke. That was awesome!

 

[Lambchops]

Uh... That was... Certainly something.

I'm a Norwegian. And even by norwegian standards I would be considered pretty far left. Which by US standards means I'm a bleeding-heart, SJW, beta-cuck feminazi libtard with a spine made from overcooked tofu and unicorn glitter.

Are Norwegian leftists known for our "Tough On Crime" stance over where you are? Have you not heard of our "luxury hotel standard" prisons?
"Child superpredators" is not even a part of our vocabulary. The last time we tried a child as an adult up here was... Uhm, half a century ago, at worst?
Our idea of "cleaning up society" is pretty much "give inmates a free education, and have job-training programs ready for them when they get out". And I'm all for that because it demonstrably works. No fee-fees involved.

You've totally misunderstood what I'm trying to say. But after that ludicrous rant of yours, I'm not even remotely interested in explaining what you got wrong. Not beyond what I just did above, anyway.

Now go forth and spin this post into "OMG YOU ARE LITERALLY HITLERSTALINEMPATHYKILLS!!!". I'm sure it will be awesome.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

CNN reports:

Man convicted of sexually abusing a woman on a plane could get life in prison

Sentencing is Dec. 18.

Does this seem excessive to anyone else?

The majority of respondents to a Debate.org survey were heavily weighted toward approval.

The crime as charged seems to be "sexual abuse" vs. "sexual assault," and though I agree this man's alleged crime rises to the level of sexual assault, there are jurisdictions where punishment for sexual abuse is less stringent than for sexual assault.

That's the news media hyping the news up.

There's no way that will be the sentence and that reporter knows it.

Maybe the law needs more categories. A serial rapist should get life because they simply don't stop.

 

[Venom]

A single, regular rape also seems worth life in prison to me.

Should rape carry a *potential* life sentence?

Mmmmm... yeah. Yeah I'm fine with that. I'd be more interested in a mandatory minimum, though. The part that bothers me most is people getting off with a slap on the wrist.

Regular rape? What's that. I think better is potential life sentence for "aggravated" rape, involving other violence and ones that mutilate or otherwise permanently damage the victim, or multiple rapes.

I rail against people who keep using "rape" in place of other sexual assault. There are so many distinct terms out there, why not use them? Cause there are degrees of severity of rape as there are degrees of severity of murders.

 

[pharphis]

1/4 women on college will be have sex after consuming alcohol I mean be sexually assaulted I mean be raped I mean murdered.

 

[BobTheCoward]

Regular rape? What's that. I think better is potential life sentence for "aggravated" rape, involving other violence and ones that mutilate or otherwise permanently damage the victim, or multiple rapes.

I rail against people who keep using "rape" in place of other sexual assault. There are so many distinct terms out there, why not use them? Cause there are degrees of severity of rape as there are degrees of severity of murders.

I was considering saying law and order style.

 

[Lambchops]

1/4 women on college will be have sex after consuming alcohol I mean be sexually assaulted I mean be raped I mean murdered.

You seem awfully keen on downplaying the fact that a lot of people will at some point be actually, forcibly, violently raped.

And it looks like so far, you are the only one who keeps bringing up gender in this thread. In multiple posts. Why is that?

 

[pharphis]

You seem awfully keen on downplaying the fact that a lot of people will at some point be actually, forcibly, violently raped.

And it looks like so far, you are the only one who keeps bringing up gender in this thread. In multiple posts. Why is that?

I thought it would be apparent I was playing off of the previous poster in my comment, regarding how various crimes/actions are all conflated to rape.

I don't see how I have been "awfully keen on downplaying the fact ... ".

I don't know if I was the first person to bring up gender, but I certainly was not the only one.

 

[Lambchops]

I thought it would be apparent I was playing off of the previous poster in my comment, regarding how various crimes/actions are all conflated to rape.

I don't see how I have been "awfully keen on downplaying the fact ... ".

I don't know if I was the first person to bring up gender, but I certainly was not the only one.

This is not a good answer. You might think it is, but you are wrong.

 

[Lambchops]

And "various crimes/actions are all conflated to rape"? Seriously? What rock have you been living under?

 

[pharphis]

It's called hyperbole but I was specifically referring to shoddy statistics used to make it sound as if 1/4 (1/3, 1/5, etc.) women are raped on college campuses, when those stats (if anything) represent much less severe things than rape.

 

[pharphis]

This is not a good answer. You might think it is, but you are wrong.

Well if that's not a good answer then I will simply ask you to back up your original claim because I think it came from nowhere and doesn't represent my beliefs or behavior.

 

[Lambchops]

It's called hyperbole but I was specifically referring to shoddy statistics used to make it sound as if 1/4 (1/3, 1/5, etc.) women are raped on college campuses, when those stats (if anything) represent much less severe things than rape.

So what number of actual rapes of men, women, or martians, on college campuses do you feel is acceptable?

 

[Lambchops]

Well if that's not a good answer then I will simply ask you to back up your original claim because I think it came from nowhere and doesn't represent my beliefs or behavior.

Body of work.

On any topic of sexual misconduct, you clearly try to interject gender every single time. "Bu... But... What about teh mens?". Even when no gender was ever specified by the OP or anyone else taking part in the thread. I may be new here, but I've read old threads with old posts.

Manosphere much, brah?

 

[pharphis]

So what number of actual rapes of men, women, or martians, on college campuses do you feel is acceptable?

325.7 million

Don't ask stupid questions, please.

Body of work.

Oh, so not this thread, then, but your beliefs about my opinions from other threads. Ok.

edit: I was ninja'd.

On any topic of sexual misconduct, you clearly try to interject gender every single time. "Bu... But... What about teh mens?". Even when no gender was ever specified by the OP or anyone else taking part in the thread.

Manosphere much, brah?

Please point out where I interjected "what about the mens"

 

[Lambchops]

There's no need to point it out. As mentioned, your body of work is more than enough.

You are a stereotypical anti-feminist (which actually means anti-women to you) youtube scepti-bro.

That much is clear.

And just for the record, I've come across some of the comments you've made on various youtube channels. So it's not just here. And it's not a good look.

 

[pharphis]

There's no need to point it out. As mentioned, your body of work is more than enough.

You are a stereotypical anti-feminist (which actually means anti-women to you) youtube scepti-bro.

That much is clear.

And just for the record, I've come across some of the comments you've made on various youtube channels. So it's not just here. And it's not a good look.

I'm disgusted by your suggestion that I am "anti-women". If you can't separate "feminism" from "women" then I can't help you. The vast majority of people aren't feminist., btw.

I don't know what a "scepti-bro" is.

This thread isn't about me, but I'd love to hear about all the terrible things I've said online. Surely you can tell me which youtube channels, at least.


edit: oh I remember, now. You're the person in the "why can't we hate men" thread who kept misreading what I said and showing no empathy for male victims

 

[Lambchops]

I'm disgusted by your suggestion that I am "anti-women". If you can't separate "feminism" from "women" then I can't help you. The vast majority of people aren't feminist., btw.

I don't know what a "scepti-bro" is.

This thread isn't about me, but I'd love to hear about all the terrible things I've said online. Surely you can tell me which youtube channels, at least.


edit: oh I remember, now. You're the person in the "why can't we hate men" thread who kept misreading what I said and showing no empathy for male victims

I have empathty for all victims of rape and sexual misconduct, regardless of sexual preferences and/or gender.

You are the one constantly going on about "but teh mens" even when gender was never mentioned in the first place. Because in your world of fantasy, male victims of sexual abuse are non-existent because of feminazi oppression..

And you know exactly where on the internet you've been peddling your thinly-veiled misogyni. Or have you been doing it so much that you've lost track?

 

[Lambchops]

And I think we're done here. You "Manospherians" can wallow in your own filth for the rest of your pathetic lives for all I care.

Toodles.

 

[pharphis]

I have empathty for all victims of rape and sexual misconduct, regardless of sexual preferences and/or gender.

You are the one constantly going on about "but teh mens" even when gender was never mentioned in the first place. Because in your world of fantasy, male victims of sexual abuse are non-existent because of feminazi oppression..

And you know exactly where on the internet you've ben peddling your thinly-veiled misogyni. Or have you been doing it so much that you've lost track?

Wow, me too.

My "world of fantasy" is something you have concocted in direct contradiction to what I have said (even after correcting you in the "why can't we hate men" thread when you first misrepresented me).

Dodge noted. Look, I'm just asking for names of the channels you have in mind. I know you have a habit of reading misogyny into what I write so I wouldn't be surprised to see you interpret hate into something I said elsewhere... but I leave lots of comments on youtube and very few of them have hate in them. Most are jokes or opinions. Some of them are me calling actual hate out for what it is, because I do see hate sometimes directed towards both men and women. I don't watch the popular clickbait channels so I am curious where you have gone and found me.

As it is, it looks like you popped in this thread to say what an awful person I am. It makes you look bad.


edit: My username can be googled and you can take a look for yourselves. I'm more ashamed of statements I made 5+ years ago (overly harsh comments about religious people, probably - I still think they're wrong ) than anything I've said since. Even then I'm not really ashamed. We've all said stupid things and exaggerated.