Should prostitution be legalized?

[Cleon]

Because a man is driven to using prostitution out of the naturally irrational libido. Not much, other than hunger is as powerful. I see society as something that should decrease irrationality.

I see a number of problems with this. First, I don't think that necessarily makes prostitution "abuse." It makes it a response to an irrational drive, but not abuse.

Second, legally enforcing rationality--especially when it's fighting against something as primal as the human sex drive--is an exercise in futility.

 

[Undesired Walrus]

So you are saying that, at worst, legalizing prostitution will have no effect on the current problem of child prostitution?

Then again, given the availability of legal prostitution, there is reason to believe the demand for child prostitution will go down. No, you will not eliminate completely the demand for child prostitution, but you will decrease the demand for illegal prostitution. You will eliminate the 13 year old being picked up by someone looking for any old streetwalker. By making it legal, you will only have those who are out still looking for illegal prostitution. That is likely to be less than now. It certainly can't be worse. Therefore, it is not a reason to not make prostitution legal.

It is also equally possible that the legalisation of adult prostitution will lead to increased trade in child prostitution. Never underestimate the drive for the 'other'. On the streets of Amsterdam, legal sales in pot have not decreased the incredible amount of illegal crack sales.

Cleon, you make some excellent points.

 

[Primus]

I think if you legalised prostitution it would make it an awful lot easier to come down like a bag of hammers on the real "bad guys" involved in the business.
I'm not sure what it's like in the states but in England theres a fair amount of people offering jobs to young women in the UK who come over often from poorer eastern european countries, get their passport nicked and then are basically slaves with very little chance of escape.
In a properly regulated system these guys could never get a licence and so the police could more effectively spend their time catching these guys rather than arresting consenting adults doing what they will with there spare time.

 

[pgwenthold]

It is also equally possible that the legalisation of adult prostitution will lead to increased trade in child prostitution. On the streets of Amsterdam, legal sales in pot have not decreased the incredible amount of illegal crack sales on the street.

Didn't crack first become available after the pot was legalized? If so, how can you say that it has not decreased the amount of illegal crack sales? You don't know what the crack sales would be without legal pot.

Explain how legalization of adult prostitution would lead to increased trade in child prostitution. I'm not seeing how it is "equally possible" as the mechanism I described above.

 

[Cleon]

It is also equally possible that the legalisation of adult prostitution will lead to increased trade in child prostitution. Never underestimate the drive for the 'other'. On the streets of Amsterdam, legal sales in pot have not decreased the incredible amount of illegal crack sales.

I don't think it's actually increased them, either, which sort of backs up my statement earlier about how I don't think legalization would really affect the more extreme examples of abuse. Those situations are more along the lines of human slavery; in the case of child prostitution, exploitation of minors, child molestation, and a whole list of other things.

Cleon, you make some excellent points.

I try.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

You want to make poverty illegal?

You gonna throw poor people in jail?

No, given Dann's sig and previous discussions with him on this topic, I think Comrade Dann believes that we should take the wealth from those who've earned it and give it to those who haven't...

...usually at gun point.

 

[tsg]

It is also equally possible that the legalisation of adult prostitution will lead to increased trade in child prostitution. Never underestimate the drive for the 'other'.

I think you are making the unwarranted assumption that most underage prostitutes are there to satisfy a market for underage girls. I'm willing to bet that most of them are (consentually or otherwise) simply being passed off as of legal age.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Sewer workers are useful to society, quick sex for a quick buck is not.

Tell me, who are you to tell anyone who is and who isn't "useful to society."

 

[BenBurch]

Legalize it? But then the radical Islamists would have just one more reason to hate us and want to behead us.

I'll give them a few more if you like! ANYTHING that pisses off that bunch of anal sphincters cannot be wrong.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

A cliched argument it may be, but what young girl announces that when she grows up she will want to go into prostitution?

Girls with sexually liberated attitudes that haven't been infected by the anti-sex priggishness of "Judeo-Christian morality."

 

[pgwenthold]

I think you are making the unwarranted assumption that most underage prostitutes are there to satisfy a market for underage girls. I'm willing to bet that most of them are (consentually or otherwise) simply being passed off as of legal age.

Is there a "legal age" for an illegal prostitute?

I don't think they are being passed off as being 18. It's just that when going to an illegal prostitute, is anyone really stopping to ask for proof of age? "Yeah, I went to a prostitute, but she swore she was 18!"

Are those people going to illegal prostitutes really concerned about whether it's statutory rape?

 

[BenBurch]

Girls with sexually liberated attitudes that haven't been infected by the anti-sex priggishness of "Judeo-Christian morality."

My good friend Annie Sprinkle did it because it looked like a great job to her.

 

[tsg]

Is there a "legal age" for an illegal prostitute?

That would be "legal age of consent".

I don't think they are being passed off as being 18. It's just that when going to an illegal prostitute, is anyone really stopping to ask for proof of age? "Yeah, I went to a prostitute, but she swore she was 18!"

That's pretty much what I meant. The point being that the person seeking sex isn't specifically looking for an underage partner in most cases.

Are those people going to illegal prostitutes really concerned about whether it's statutory rape?

Considering that the penalties for statutory rape are usually considerably more severe than prostitution, I would think they are.

ETA: It also bears pointing out that the penalty for engaging in prostitution* with an underage person in New Jersey does not make allowances for mistakenly thinking the other person was over 18, even if such a mistake is reasonable.

*same crime and penalties whether you're buying or selling.

 

[steverino]

Funny. It seems no woman has posted on this thread yet.

 

[pgwenthold]

Considering that the penalties for statutory rape are usually considerably more severe than prostitution, I would think they are.

It might have some effect, but in the end, I tend to think that illegal activity begets more illegal activity. Drug users for example are going to be more likely to steal to support their usage, but you don't see as many people stealing to buy alcohol (there are exceptions both ways of course - consider though the interest case of kids stealing alcohol).


I think we can agree that someone willing to do illegal activity isn't working with a strong moral compass.

 

[tsg]

It might have some effect, but in the end, I tend to think that illegal activity begets more illegal activity. Drug users for example are going to be more likely to steal to support their usage, but you don't see as many people stealing to buy alcohol (there are exceptions both ways of course - consider though the interest case of kids stealing alcohol).

I think you're going to have to support those assertions before I can accept them. For instance, I think it's more likely that poverty could be a contributing factor to both theft and drug use.

I think we can agree that someone willing to do illegal activity isn't working with a strong moral compass.

Engaging in an activity that you don't believe is wrong despite being illegal isn't the same as engaging in an activity that you believe is. Knowingly exceeding the speed limit by five mph doesn't mean the driver is more willing to drive drunk.

I'd be willing to bet that most people who do use prostitutes don't think it's okay to have sex with a minor. But, besides that, the penalty for sex with a minor in New Jersey is a minimum of ten years in prison. The penalty for engaging in prostitution is a maximum of 18 months if both parties are above the age of consent. Most often, it's just a fine for a first offense. I'd also be willing to bet that most customers of prostitutes are at least thinking about that.

 

[pgwenthold]

Engaging in an activity that you don't believe is wrong despite being illegal isn't the same as engaging in an activity that you believe is. Knowingly exceeding the speed limit by five mph doesn't mean the driver is more willing to drive drunk.

I think it does. Turn it around. Don't you think that people who rigorously follow the speed limit at all times (as rare as they may be) are less likely to drive drunk?

 

[kosai]

I think we can agree that someone willing to do illegal activity isn't working with a strong moral compass.

I disagree completely, I play online poker despite it being illegal. However I don't break any other laws (that I am aware of.) I feel it should be my right to do with my money as I wish as long as I am not endangering anyone or violating the rights of others. This has nothing to do with morals, this is a stance against bad legislation.

 

[Cleon]

It might have some effect, but in the end, I tend to think that illegal activity begets more illegal activity. Drug users for example are going to be more likely to steal to support their usage, but you don't see as many people stealing to buy alcohol (there are exceptions both ways of course - consider though the interest case of kids stealing alcohol).

I don't think that's a case of "illegal begets illegal," I think that's just a case of someone's addiction getting out of control. It's relatively common to see people stealing to support their crack, crystal meth, or heroin habit, but I'd wager a decent chunk of money that not a lot of people commit armed robbery so they can buy more weed.

I think we can agree that someone willing to do illegal activity isn't working with a strong moral compass.

That depends on the illegal activity, wouldn't you say? I routinely drive faster than the posted speed limit, but I don't think that says much about my "moral compass." Ditto for Carl Sagan's marijuana use.

 

[dann]

Should the poverty and trafficking that force women to become prostitutes be legal?
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=2479841#post2479841
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96888

You want to make poverty illegal?

You gonna throw poor people in jail?

How on earth can you you come up with that idea? If you look at the illegalities theft and murder, for instance, they usually throw the perpetrators in jail, not their victims.