Moderated Should pedophiles never be forgiven.

Cainkane1 said:
There used to be a man in my town who was convicted of child molestion. His victim wasn't raped just improperly touched...... .
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I find it very unlikely that this was the first and only time that guy ever "touched" a child. More likely that this was the only time he was caught.
Nevertheless a child can be severely traumatized from inappropriate sexual touching too so I'm not cutting this guy any slack at all.

He has tried to redeem himself so I guess forgiveness is possible, but from whom, the child or from the community ? As a person who has been sexually molested in my childhood I would find it extremely offensive to see any authorities publically shake my molester's hand no matter what.
 
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Cainkane1 said:
The Criminal Minds team refused to shake his hand at the end of the movie.

Do you agree with this attitude or disagree?
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Depends on what his crime was, and might also depend on whether these same policemen were once solving his crime. Or if any of them personally knew the victim.
 
Cainkane1 said:
The Criminal Minds team refused to shake his hand at the end of the movie.

Do you agree with this attitude or disagree? I'm undecided myself.
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I haven't seen that episode, and it would really depend on how it played out. It's a common theme - both in that show and others - that the insane criminal mastermind is needed to solve a new crime. Usually, they are portrayed as enjoying the crime and their involvement in it more than solving it or doing any sort of good.

I can also imagine that the guy's ability to help is a sign of how badly an offender he used to be, right?

And last but not least: He's not necessarily doing anything special, is he? (Again, depending on how the episode plays out.) Important, yes, but what he does doesn't really help his past victims, or does it?

That being said: I would have shaken the guys hand. If you help me out of your own free will, then that should count for something.
 
My view is whether these sex registers, exclusion orders and so on work at reducing the chances of children and others becoming victims of a criminal act? Surely they have been in place long enough for us to have collected data about their effectiveness?
 
NoahFence said:
Child molestation victims need to live with it for the rest of their lives.
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A person has to live with the memories of everything good, bad or indifferent than happened to him or her for the rest of his or her life. However, people have a choice how to try to live after such events. Or perhaps they don't. Perhaps people have no control over whether or not bad experiences in their past spoil the rest of their lives.

Yeah, I'm going to go will the latter. Once something bad happens to you, the rest of your life is either ********** or it isn't, and you have zero control over which it is.
 
mikeyx said:
only after they've been castrated, then, maybe.....
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Adult castration does absolutely nothing to the sex drive. Even if you cut the other part off... there's still hands...

So basically, this would do nothing.

There is, however, a drug that reduces the sex drive to basically nil and doesn't involve cutting off any body parts...

Anyway, as to the O.P.: Well, child molestation is the flavor of the year (or decade? Actually, I'd say the fixation on it has been going on since the mid 90s or so, as an estimate) in hatred inducing crimes. I don't condone the crime, by any means, but society is being greatly influenced by the press these days in this. I see it as just another foray in the war on sex. I see it as no more wrong than beating the crap out of a child repeatedly... and less than intentionally causing a serious injury to the same.

I also find it funny that an 18-year-old dallying with a 15yo is essentially the same thing by law as a 60yo with a 7yo. It's telling how a mere mention of the crime brings a certain image of the latter, to most people.

Anyway, what's to forgive? People do horrible things to each other. We try to prevent it, we punish the guilty, and in the end, stuff still happens and always will. People are just plain screwed in the head sometimes -- I mean everyone, not just certain people. Would I allow a known pedophile to hang around my children? Well, I don't have children, but umm.... no. Certainly not without my own presence, anyway -- and no touching.:eek:
 
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Manopolus said:
Adult castration does absolutely nothing to the sex drive. Even if you cut the other part off... there's still hands...

So basically, this would do nothing.

There is, however, a drug that reduces the sex drive to basically nil and doesn't involve cutting off any body parts...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castration#Medical_consequences

Castrations after the onset of puberty will typically reduce the sex drive considerably or eliminate it altogether.
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Ivor the Engineer said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castration#Medical_consequences
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Ah, my bad... it has been a while since I looked at my most recent source on the subject. After looking, I guess it said that castration does tend to work, but is not necessary... drugs can have the same effect. I guess what might have confused me is that it mentioned its effect on animals... but its done on animals before adulthood (so I guess this has something to do with how I remembered wrong). I'm not an expert by any means, I'm just repeating stuff I looked up once through the lens of a faulty memory.

Hmm... I tried to quote the relevant parts, but I can't seem to copy and paste from a PDF. Guess you'll have to find it yourself :D
 
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Ivor the Engineer said:
Perhaps a more relevant question is whether paedophiles can ever be trusted to not engage in what they are driven to do.
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Chemical sterilization with the severe reducing/nullifying of any sexual urges, as with rapists. That would at least get rid of their otherwise latent 'drive'.
 
Cainkane1 said:
There used to be a man in my town who was convicted of child molestion. His victim wasn't raped just improperly touched. He spent ten years in prison for this crime and was released. He got a job painting cars and for ten years committed no crimes whatsoever. The state passed a law that convicted pedophiles couldn't live within a certain distance of a school bus stop. He sued the state and I don't know how it turned out.

Watching an episode of Criminal Minds there was a pedophile who has been treated for his problem and not only did he accept the treatments he helped police breakup pedophle rings and actually made himself useful in catching other pedophiles.

At the end of the program the Criminal Minds team with this mans help broke up a ring of child molesters and apparently they couldn't have done it without this mans help. The man was happy with himself feeling that he had redeemed himself for his own prior crimes.

The Criminal Minds team refused to shake his hand at the end of the movie.

Do you agree with this attitude or disagree? I'm undecided myself.
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Dear Cainkane1,

As a Catholic I'm bound to forgive anyone of anything. The judgement of this character's soul is left to Christ alone. And, if that someone helps break up a ring of people who are hurting other people, then that person deserves a handshake. The team was being rude and morally pigheaded. I think the television programme you're referring to is merely kowtowing to the fashions of the day (i.e. pedo-hysteria) even whilst banking on its sensationalist value.

Cpl Ferro
 
"Hysteria" is generally used to describe reacting to something that isn't real or a problem that doesn't actually exist. Pedophiles aren't imaginary; they really do groom and molest children.
 
Pedophiles, like sufferers from other forms of paraphilia, find their compulsions essentially permanent and untreatable. So-called "chemical castration" can reduce the sex drive but not the condition itself. By most accounts, the side effects of the drugs are unpleasant.
 
Checkmite said:
"Hysteria" is generally used to describe reacting to something that isn't real or a problem that doesn't actually exist. Pedophiles aren't imaginary; they really do groom and molest children.
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I think the problem is that the public perception of paedophiles is rather narrow: they're all monsters who get off physically abusing young children and have no self-control, compassion or good in them at all.
 
Checkmite said:
"Hysteria" is generally used to describe reacting to something that isn't real or a problem that doesn't actually exist. Pedophiles aren't imaginary; they really do groom and molest children.
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Dear Checkmite,

The valid concern of protecting anyone, including young people—namely children and youth or young adults (i.e. legal minors depending on jurisdiction)--from sexual force or coercion often spills over into an hysterical reaction. A stolen kiss becomes a rape. Admiring a young adult’s physical form becomes predatory stalking. Offering a child a stick of gum and inquiring into his interests becomes “grooming.”

This quality of attitude leads to more victimisation, as people are told they are scarred for life by something that may have merely been perceived as slightly disagreeable. Never even minding the clusterf--- of minor-manufactured erotica now in wide circulation online. The cherry on top of the sundae of stupidity is direct actions like the one linked to below:

Doctor driven out of home by vigilantes
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society

I will be the first to oppose sexual coercion and violence, and understand the sincerity of the actors involved in trying to put an end to the very real horrors that unfold every day. But, the contemporary mindset is more reactionary and reflexive than mindful and wise when it comes to actually facing the issues.

Cpl Ferro
 
CplFerro said:
Dear Checkmite,

The valid concern of protecting anyone, including young people—namely children and youth or young adults (i.e. legal minors depending on jurisdiction)--from sexual force or coercion often spills over into an hysterical reaction. A stolen kiss becomes a rape. Admiring a young adult’s physical form becomes predatory stalking. Offering a child a stick of gum and inquiring into his interests becomes “grooming.”

This quality of attitude leads to more victimisation, as people are told they are scarred for life by something that may have merely been perceived as slightly disagreeable. Never even minding the clusterf--- of minor-manufactured erotica now in wide circulation online. The cherry on top of the sundae of stupidity is direct actions like the one linked to below:

Doctor driven out of home by vigilantes
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/aug/30/childprotection.society

I will be the first to oppose sexual coercion and violence, and understand the sincerity of the actors involved in trying to put an end to the very real horrors that unfold every day. But, the contemporary mindset is more reactionary and reflexive than mindful and wise when it comes to actually facing the issues.

Cpl Ferro
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I believe the fact that your best example of this kind of hysteria in action is something that happened more than a decade ago illustrates that this "hysteria" is not as deep or widespread as some people assert; in my experience from what I've read in many places, there are some who it seems will characterize any reaction whatever to allegations of child molestation as hysteria if it is greater than how a community might react to a traffic violation. Further, things like "victims' lives are made worse by people telling them they are scarred for life when they originally wouldn't have felt so bad" are pure unsupported speculation.

One's attitude towards a person who has molested a child, or for whom the evidence is incredibly suggestive (Jerry Sandusky, for instance), is not an instance of hysteria in action.
 
I have a lot of sympathy for pedophiles because I don't believe they can help how they feel. However they certainly can help what they do, and the child in the situation is doomed. There is a difference IMO between a pedophile that realizes they have a problem and seeks help for it and tries to distance themselves from their situation.

An alcoholic also has a problem, and so one who doesn't go to bars or buy alcohol and goes to support meetings has my respect. One who continues to deny it doesn't because they will eventually be faced with a problem again.

A pedophile who is caught and is working around children should not be forgiven.
 
What the hell does "forgiveness" mean anyway?

Does it mean "we forget it ever happened"? Does it mean, "I don't hold it against you"? If so, in what respect? If I am a victim, regardless of whether I have "forgiven" an abuser or not, I sure as heck aren't going to be friendly with them in any way.

How does forgiveness change any behavior? Aside from being unwilling to shake their hand, apparently.
 
ok, everyone done, lets settle this shall we
so you've forgiven a pedophile, now who's the first here to volunteer to let him look after your children ?

anyone ?
:rolleyes:
 
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