Should Australia become a Republic?

The primary problem I have w/ the notion of royalty is that it embeds the notion that people belong to superior and inferior classes that are impenetrable. That's as disgusting,as demeaning to aspiration as the same aspect of slavery.

The US lacks a mechanism for resolving a deadlock between houses of congress

There is a perfectly good mechanism - deadlock. What exactly do you imagine should happen when large groups of the population dispute the valid role of government ? It may feed the normative biases of some to see that repeal of Obamacare has been attempted repeatedly - but what exactly does they expect when a large fraction, perhaps a majority, don't want it - at least as currently constituted. Thank goodness we don't have efficient effective government.

The fact that a president needs to win over both houses is an advantage - especially if the alternative is a prime minister who is virtually guaranteed that at least one house of parliament will rubber stamp any legislation he wants to get through. The public don't even have a say in who becomes the PM - only the party.

I can see advantages/disadvantages both ways. The US system tends to create presidents with a lot of sway over the legislature early-on in their terms, and are nearly powerless in the last years. The fixed term length is not a plus IMO I wish we had some sort of vote of no confidence schema to precipitate a change.

Consider also the fact that under the westminster system, members of the executive can only be chosen from the parliament - a place full of party hacks and yes men with almost no talent between them. OTOH the president can choose members of the executive from outside congress where there is a lot more talent and he is free from the need to satisfy factional deals in the process.

I see, but consider the selection of the president - we have the whole dynastic thing going on here - Adams, Harrisons, Roosevelts, Bushs, perhaps two Clintons, and a lot of repeat-runners like Romney - it's unbelievable how small is the selection pool in reality.

The election system here makes the selection process more like a horse race - everyone choosing from among only those considered possible winners rather than voting their interests honestly. We see many/most ppl prefer candidate A, but vote for B b/c they believe A can't win (a self-fulfilling prophesy, but partly manufactured by the press & party hype).

The US Constitution intended to make the president a relatively weak office, but we've developed this amazing imperial presidency concept. When the Pres went to Africa they reassigned aircraft carriers and squadrons of fighter jets. When PM travels - I imagine he's considered fairly expendable by comparison and rightly so. I think a lot of Americans would elect a king if they could - they worship these hacks and fools so.
 
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Australia is likely to face cobbled together coalitions at both state and federal levels with the rise of loony parties and insane independents. IIRC, there have been instances of state governors not being convinced of the stability of these coalitions and have not given assent (can someone confirm this for me?). In my view any President must not have the power to reject a coalition, and let the matter be decided in the House.
 
Asides from what went on in 1975, I am unaware of any Governor/General not providing assent.
 
Asides from what went on in 1975, I am unaware of any Governor/General not providing assent.

Is that important?

Surely this is about whether they are able to withhold assent, rather than whether this actually (often) happens in practise?
 
Look, to anyone who thinks I am trying to be rude, I apologise. That is not my intent. But I do think that to subordinate yourself to a hereditary principle for fear of what democracy might produce is infantile. It is to divest yourself of responsibility and entrust it to somebody else.

The argument that a monarch, being free from ambition, is thereby best suited to the role is superficially attractive but it's not really how all this got started. The monarch started as the embodiment of supreme and unrestrained power. In the passage of time almost all that power has been whittled away leaving the formal, ceremonial and occasionally deadlock-breaking sovereign who is assumed (on what evidence?) to be politically neutral.

What if we were starting afresh? Would we randomly pick a family, put them in a castle and say for all time that only their issue could occupy the role of 'sovereign'? No. We would do what several states have already successfully done - erect a system in which the president is expected to be 'above politics' at those rare moments when called upon to be involved at all. The idea that this is beyond us is inherently infantile as well as being falsified by the examples given.

FWIW I don't accept that the British monarchy is not political anyway but that's another story.
 
The primary problem I have w/ the notion of royalty is that it embeds the notion that people belong to superior and inferior classes that are impenetrable. That's as disgusting,as demeaning to aspiration as the same aspect of slavery.
That aspect is pretty much a non-issue in Australia. Although the constitution gives the queen the right to disallow any Australian government legislation, she has never done so. Should she ever exercise that power - even if it was a popular decision - you can be sure that Australia would become a republic quick smart.

There is a perfectly good mechanism - deadlock. What exactly do you imagine should happen when large groups of the population dispute the valid role of government ? It may feed the normative biases of some to see that repeal of Obamacare has been attempted repeatedly - but what exactly does they expect when a large fraction, perhaps a majority, don't want it - at least as currently constituted. Thank goodness we don't have efficient effective government.
The double-dissolution provision was included in the constitution to ensure that if a house continually rejected popular legislation, it would face the judgement of the people (wait until the next election is not necessarily an acceptable option). In particular, it is there to ensure that the Senate can not withhold supply (causing a government shutdown) without facing the consequences.

in 1909, England found out the consequences of not having a similar provision. The house of lords rejected the "people's budget" which forced the house of commons to go to an election. However, since the house of lords is not an elected chamber, it did not have to answer to the voters for its intransigence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People's_Budget

By contrast, the US is sometimes forced into shutdown mode when supply bills are held up because there is no way to force an early election.
 
The Belgian deadlock lasted 541 days during which time, apparently, there was no government. Luckily a monarch was on hand to keep order:

Belgium's record 541 days without a government formally came to an end on Monday with the appointment of French-speaking Socialist leader Elio Di Rupo as prime minister.
Di Rupo, who will have a six-party coalition government, was appointed in a formal ceremony by the country's monarch, King Albert II.
"The King held an audience at the Belvedere Castle tonight with Mr. Elio Di Rupo ... and appointed him prime minister," a statement from the palace said.

This could happen in any of the democracies, either with a monarch or a president of equivalent function. The question boils down to whether that person should be selected democratically or by heredity and that in turn is just a question of principle as there is no evidence that one is better than the other in practise. Even if there were a good or bad example one side or the other it would be fallacious to extrapolate from it blanket-fashion.

Also presidents can be impeached. You need revolution to get rid of the monarch.
 
That aspect is pretty much a non-issue in Australia. Although the constitution gives the queen the right to disallow any Australian government legislation, she has never done so. Should she ever exercise that power - even if it was a popular decision - you can be sure that Australia would become a republic quick smart.

Pretty sure that the Queen doesn't have that authority as it now rests with the Governor General.
 
Actually, why should women have the vote? They can leave everything to us knowing we will act fairly in their interests. We don't have a choice about being men so we won't be distracted by ambition or party interest and history does not show democracy works any better with female voters.
 
anglolawyer, to quote someone else, "this is not that kind of thread".
It's just anglolawyer's attempt to subtly suggest that being ruled by a monarch belongs in the days of chauvinism.

What he doesn't get is that Australian national pride has nothing to do with the system of government. It matters little who is the titular head of state as long as Australian democracy works and it doesn't change the fact that Australia is still a Sovereign nation.
 
It's just anglolawyer's attempt to subtly suggest that being ruled by a monarch belongs in the days of chauvinism.

What he doesn't get is that Australian national pride has nothing to do with the system of government. It matters little who is the titular head of state as long as Australian democracy works and it doesn't change the fact that Australia is still a Sovereign nation.

True, I don't get that. But I also don't get it here either where I'm in an even smaller minority.

Say you had a button on your desk right now and you could just press it and the effect would be to switch over to an elected, mainly ceremonial but occasionally important deadlock-breaking president whose role was required to be neutral - would you?
 
Say you had a button on your desk right now and you could just press it and the effect would be to switch over to an elected, mainly ceremonial but occasionally important deadlock-breaking president whose role was required to be neutral - would you?
Meh. I'm not really interested in a half-arsed republic.
 
Except that as the Queen's Representative, everything done by the Governor General is de facto done with the authority of the Queen.
There is no "except" about it.

Section 59 of the constitution explicitly gives the queen the authority to override the governor general's assent.
 
There is no "except" about it.

Section 59 of the constitution explicitly gives the queen the authority to override the governor general's assent.

Yeah thanks. The Commonwealth can still be overridden, yet the states can't. Oh well, like you I don't really think it matters much.
 

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