Shooting at Texas college

People who go around shooting people are not very likely to respect gun laws, either, so I don't see the difference.

It depends on the circumstances. Take the Newtown shooter for instance. Had semi-automatic firearms been banned, maybe his mother wouldn't have owned one, and maybe he wouldn't have been able to acquire one anyways, and maybe the death toll at the school would have been lower. I don't agree with such bans, but I can see the logic that they might lessen the death toll in spree killings.

Organized gangs on the other hand aren't going to give up crime because certain weapons are banned. They're not going to turn in what they have now because they're suddenly illegal. They'll figure out a way to keep on killing one another. That would likely mean more illegally imported AK-47's, UZI's etc or improvised weapons.

Making all firearms in the US illegal would create an enormous demand for illegal imports into the country, or even illegal manufacture (ie 3D printing).
We've done such a great job keeping illegal drugs out of the country, I'm sure preventing the illegal importation of firearms will just as easy.
 
It depends on the circumstances. Take the Newtown shooter for instance. Had semi-automatic firearms been banned, maybe his mother wouldn't have owned one, and maybe he wouldn't have been able to acquire one anyways, and maybe the death toll at the school would have been lower. I don't agree with such bans, but I can see the logic that they might lessen the death toll in spree killings.

Organized gangs on the other hand aren't going to give up crime because certain weapons are banned. They're not going to turn in what they have now because they're suddenly illegal. They'll figure out a way to keep on killing one another. That would likely mean more illegally imported AK-47's, UZI's etc or improvised weapons.

Making all firearms in the US illegal would create an enormous demand for illegal imports into the country, or even illegal manufacture (ie 3D printing).
We've done such a great job keeping illegal drugs out of the country, I'm sure preventing the illegal importation of firearms will just as easy.

Not really. Criminals don't usually use those kinds of weapons.
 
Gangs are populated by "those people", see. And we don't want "those people" to be confused with the god-fearin', right-thinkin' gun owners who aren't criminals right up until they _are_ criminals and shoot the hell out of someone.

"Those people" are always criminals, of course, even though their only crime may be "being part of a gang" and "getting shot by a rival gang". Though I guess that last one isn't actually a crime. Oops.
So it's not because firearms safety classes and licensing and such is unlikely to have any effect at all on members of violent street gangs or other criminals? :rolleyes:

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And you know why this story dropped out of the news? It didn't fit the right narrative. "Bullied/outcast/mentally ill kid goes postal at school killing random people", now that's news. "Street beef that coincidentally happens on campus" isn't news.

Hear about the 17 year old high school kid in Chicago shot and killed on school grounds after a basketball game last week? Didn't think so. Doesn't fit the narrative, so it's just local news.
 
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And you know why this story dropped out of the news? It didn't fit the right narrative. "Bullied/outcast/mentally ill kid goes postal at school killing random people", now that's news. "Street beef that coincidentally happens on campus" isn't news.

Sadly you are right. These types of shootings have become mundane for America but this is how the vast majority of gun violence occurs. Guns being present when they don't need to be. People being shot when the best option was to walk away.

All the evidence one needs that this man should not have had a gun lies in several facts.

1. He used it in an argument not self defense
2. He only hit his target 3 times yet fired 6 or more shots injuring a bystander
3. He shot himself in the buttocks.
 
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It depends on the circumstances. Take the Newtown shooter for instance. Had semi-automatic firearms been banned, maybe his mother wouldn't have owned one, and maybe he wouldn't have been able to acquire one anyways, and maybe the death toll at the school would have been lower.

How about we just take guns away from irresponsible parents who will not kill their kids to protect their guns?
 
Sadly you are right. These types of shootings have become mundane for America but this is how the vast majority of gun violence occurs. Guns being present when they don't need to be. People being shot when the best option was to walk away.

All the evidence one needs that this man should not have had a gun lies in several facts.

1. He used it in an argument not self defense
2. He only hit his target 3 times yet fired 6 or more shots injuring a bystander
3. He shot himself in the buttocks.

Still a better shot than the NYPD. :duck:
 
Organized gangs on the other hand aren't going to give up crime because certain weapons are banned. They're not going to turn in what they have now because they're suddenly illegal. They'll figure out a way to keep on killing one another. That would likely mean more illegally imported AK-47's, UZI's etc or improvised weapons.

In NY, Uzi's and AK's (among others) have been banned since the AWB of 1994 (NY kept the law in place even through the federal one expired in 2004). And yet, they still continuously show up on the streets here.
 
They do here.

A recent bust in Buffalo seized a bunch of TEC-9's and UZI's along with a pile of handguns.

No AR-15's, though...

Actual Uzis? Not M-11s that kind of junk? The TEC-9s actually don't surprise me. I don't know how many were in Intratec's inventory when Congress told them to close their doors but they had to go somewhere.
 
Actual Uzis? Not M-11s that kind of junk? The TEC-9s actually don't surprise me. I don't know how many were in Intratec's inventory when Congress told them to close their doors but they had to go somewhere.

The report said Uzi's. I really don't know. Could be M-11's...to an untrained talking-head, they look similar. Either way, they're banned in NY.
 
Illegal drugs are the major source of gangs and gang violence. Dealing with the gangs' income reduces gang violence, and lowers gun deaths. Talking about how to reduce gang shootings is talking about gang shootings.

Not actually true. Illegal drugs are currently the major source of gang income, but not the gangs themselves or the violence.

Gangs are a result of many factors, but the main one is in the form of angry, young men who feel disenfranchised by the system, bonding together to create the family and culture that they feel they have been deprived of by society.

The most likely person to become a gang member is a young minority race male who's father is absent by way of being dead or in jail, whose mother is often struggling to support the family financally, often by working multiple jobs, and who has done poorly in a school system designed to create blue collar working clones who follow instructions.

They generally see little for them in the normal world, without an education that the system won't give to them in a way that actually allows them to learn, they will never escape the poverty trap they are in. With no male role models other than those they find on the streets, a need for support and love from family that their shatter home doesn't give, and a desire to reclaim some sort of culture that they feel western society has stripped from them, the gangs offer those things and so are attractive to them, even before factoring in a source of easy money that will allow them to help their families out of the mire of poverty.

For kids from the poorest ethnic neighbourhoods, gangs are a way to recover what they feel society has robbed them of. Security, family, and a chance to escape from the poverty they are in. Is it really any surprise that these individuals feel that they aren't part of the rest of society and can live by their own rules instead of those of a society that they feel has opressed and abandoned them, that hates them, and can offer them no future but a jail cell?

Making drugs legal won't destroy the gang problem, they'll just move to something else, or just keep selling drugs legitimately. You won't get rid of gangs until you solve the real problem... wealth inequality, an education system that fails its most needy students, and the disenfranchising of minorities.
 
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In NY, Uzi's and AK's (among others) have been banned since the AWB of 1994 (NY kept the law in place even through the federal one expired in 2004). And yet, they still continuously show up on the streets here.

The problem with the ban in NYC is that they aren't banned in New Jersey.
 
Making drugs legal won't destroy the gang problem, they'll just move to something else, or just keep selling drugs legitimately. You won't get rid of gangs until you solve the real problem... wealth inequality, an education system that fails its most needy students, and the disenfranchising of minorities.

I think you're only partially right. Gangs thrive because of the illegal income. You'd hurt them where it matters most. But, I think you're also correct in saying they'd just find another source.

Gangs are able to recruit because it breeds itself.

America offers gobs and gobs of opportunity, but the kids don't take it. I've seen it first hand. They want the easy road. They see the thugs in their neighborhoods rolling around in expensive, tricked-out rides...wearing expensive clothes...etc. They want all that, but they don't want to have to get a job to get that...they want it now. What better way than to join a gang?

I don't want to get too far off topic, but as far as gun homicides go in Buffalo, NY (42 in 2012), nearly all of them can be connected to some gang activity. If the victim wasn't a gang member, or related to a gang member, victims were by-standers caught in cross-fire or random drive-bys.

For the record, not a single homicide was committed in Buffalo during 2012 with a legally held gun.

I'm still trying to compile stats for the rest of NY state.
 
You're comparing laws that prohibit harming others to those that ban an object that might be used in a crime? That makes total sense. :rolleyes:
When did any progressive ever make sense?

SFAICS, never, when discussing guns. :(
 
Sadly you are right. These types of shootings have become mundane for America but this is how the vast majority of gun violence occurs. Guns being present when they don't need to be. People being shot when the best option was to walk away.

All the evidence one needs that this man should not have had a gun lies in several facts.

1. He used it in an argument not self defense
2. He only hit his target 3 times yet fired 6 or more shots injuring a bystander
3. He shot himself in the buttocks.
Now we're all waiting for a plan that removes that gun from that person before punishing every gun owner willynilly.
 
Sadly you are right. These types of shootings have become mundane for America but this is how the vast majority of gun violence occurs. Guns being present when they don't need to be. People being shot when the best option was to walk away.

All the evidence one needs that this man should not have had a gun lies in several facts.

1. He used it in an argument not self defense
2. He only hit his target 3 times yet fired 6 or more shots injuring a bystander
3. He shot himself in the buttocks.
If only there was a law requiring a license to carry a gun, and the school was a gun-free zone!

Oh, wait...
 
They do here.

A recent bust in Buffalo seized a bunch of TEC-9's and UZI's along with a pile of handguns.

No AR-15's, though...
Which ones do they actually use in crimes, as opposed to having around the house as bling? I'm guessing the TEC 9s and Uzis were grabbed from a house, and not found on the street.
 
Which ones do they actually use in crimes, as opposed to having around the house as bling? I'm guessing the TEC 9s and Uzis were grabbed from a house, and not found on the street.

I don't have any specific stats. Drive-bys are usually TEC9's, if they need to conceal in their baggy pants, usually a pistol of some type.
 

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