Shooting at Santa Monica

[lobosrul]

Does anyone think that having loads of CCW permit holders about would

- reduce casualties in mass shootings?

- reduce shootings overall?

Yes to the first question. Probably not to the second, at least not significantly.

 

[triforcharity]

CCW handgun drills. Head shots.



Random CCW'ers talking about head shots.

All=\= a few. Your claim is false.

 

[newyorkguy]

Hey, lighten up! I'm starting to come around to the Lefties' POV. It's important to keep pushing the total disarmament agenda no matter how many innocent victims it gets killed.

I mean if it's not you or someone you know who gets stabbed, shot or bludgeoned then don't worry about it...

As my dentist says, sorry, did I strike a nerve?

But I was responding to the concept not to you personally. And I'm not a lefty, I'm a very moderate Democrat. I'm not pushing a total disarmament agenda, either.

I served in the military in a combat zone. I had to face people who were armed. It's not fun, it's terrifying. That's where your training and experience kicks in. You practice it so when your faced with one of these high-stress adrenaline-inducing encounters you're able to react based on your training.

Maybe in a home invasion having a firearm around might come in handy. We've all read the stories of well-meaning Good Samaritans who try and intervene in an armed incident and only succeed in getting themselves shot. We've all read the stories of shop owners who pull a gun on a robber only to be immediately disarmed and, often, shot.

Heck there was an incident in Long Island a few weeks ago where a police officer attempted to intervene in a home invasion. He did not realize the assailant had a hostage. When the assailant confronted the officer and raised his gun as if to fire the police officer fired back. Killing both the assailant and the hostage.

I used to live in the neighborhood where the hostage, a young college woman, grew up. I used to see her and her twin sister around. Like at McDonald's. It was a terrible tragedy.

I'm arguing that, in most cases, not all, escalating the situation only makes it worse.

 

[DJW]

Does anyone think that having loads of CCW permit holders about would

- reduce casualties in mass shootings?

- reduce shootings overall?

I think we're going to get a chance to see in Illinois pretty soon.

 

[newyorkguy]

I think we're going to get a chance to see in Illinois pretty soon.

I suspect, despite all the propaganda from both sides, the effect will be too small to show up statistically.

In the first place, usually I think the stats show, the victim and killer usually know each other. Usually menacing the victim with the gun precedes the actual shooting. So the victim, even if they're armed, is not able to get to their gun.

Look at gang bangers. No demographic I'm aware of gets murdered at a higher rate than they do. Most of them are armed, doesn't seem to be doing them much good.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Does anyone think that having loads of CCW permit holders about would

- reduce casualties in mass shootings?

- reduce shootings overall?

Let's say a 10 random people have CCW permits and are carrying in a given public place.

Let's say a crazed gunman starts running around in that public place shooting.

Let's say those 10 people pull out their carry weapons and start shooting at everyone that the see holding a gun. . . . .


Then the cops show up and start shooting at anyone they see holding a gun. . . .

 

[DJW]

Let's say a 10 random people have CCW permits and are carrying in a given public place.

Let's say a crazed gunman starts running around in that public place shooting.

Let's say those 10 people pull out their carry weapons and start shooting at everyone that the see holding a gun. . . . .


Then the cops show up and start shooting at anyone they see holding a gun. . . .

Never carried a concealed weapon, nor taken a CCP training class? Have ya?

 

[newyorkguy]

Never carried a concealed weapon, nor taken a CCP training class? Have ya?

I think those classes are great, only do you really think taking that class qualifies someone to intervene in an armed shooting spree?

That's fantasy.

Especially when police are responding, do not yet have a clear idea exactly what is taking place, how many people are involved. The adrenalin is pumping. Usually the first few minutes are pure chaos. You turn in the wrong direction, inadvertently point your firearm at a cop, even look like you're about to point it at him...you're dead! And guess what? You're not coming back. There's no do-overs in real life.

You know how many times police officers wind up shooting one another?

 

[Autolite]

I had to face people who were armed.
I'm arguing that, in most cases, not all, escalating the situation only makes it worse.

I'm not sure if I'm following your rationale. You're saying that when confronting an armed assailant it's better that you yourself remain unarmed?

Was this a concept taught to you in your military training? It wasn't in mine...

 

[DJW]

I think those classes are great, only do you really think taking that class qualifies someone to intervene in an armed shooting spree?
That's fantasy.

snipped

QUOTE]

As a matter of fact, I don't think that way, and I have taken those classes.

 

[newyorkguy]

I'm not sure if I'm following your rationale. You're saying that when confronting an armed assailant it's better that you yourself remain unarmed?

Was this a concept taught to you in your military training? It wasn't in mine...

I was taught to use common sense. I was saying that the best thing to do is not to confront them in the first place. That's why the police get the big bucks.

You make it sound so easy. Killing is ugly. Most police officers after shooting and killing someone have to go to an emergency room and decompress.

The sad part of this is, presumably most people who carry firearms are pretty sensible. How often do you hear of one of them intervening in an armed incident? Almost never.

 

[triforcharity]

Let's say a 10 random people have CCW permits and are carrying in a given public place.

Let's say a crazed gunman starts running around in that public place shooting.

Let's say those 10 people pull out their carry weapons and start shooting at everyone that the see holding a gun. . . . .


Then the cops show up and start shooting at anyone they see holding a gun. . . .

Of ALL the times we've had shootings in a public place, how many times has that actually happened? Oh, right....never. COULD it happen? Sure, it's not impossible. Is it plausible? Possibly. Does it reflect something that occurs regularly or even rarely? No. It's fantasy.

 

[triforcharity]

Decompress? I'm not sure that is the correct word.

I've heard plenty of incidents where CWP holders, or firearm owners in general, intervene in armed robberies and the like.

 

[WildCat]

Look at gang bangers. No demographic I'm aware of gets murdered at a higher rate than they do. Most of them are armed, doesn't seem to be doing them much good.

Evidence? Seems highly unlikely to me.

 

[WildCat]

Let's say a 10 random people have CCW permits and are carrying in a given public place.

Let's say a crazed gunman starts running around in that public place shooting.

Let's say those 10 people pull out their carry weapons and start shooting at everyone that the see holding a gun. . . . .


Then the cops show up and start shooting at anyone they see holding a gun. . . .

On what planet do people just start shooting everyone with a gun? Who shoots without identifying the target?

Surely you have examples of this wild wild west blood in the streets scenario of yours?

 

[Autolite]

The sad part of this is, presumably most people who carry firearms are pretty sensible. How often do you hear of one of them intervening in an armed incident? Almost never.

You rarely hear about it because the media does not report on such incidents. If it doesn't support their anti-gun bias they tend to ignore it. This issue has been covered here before and a little research will show that to be the case.

In some respects I can see it from the media's POV. If a CCW individual prevented a violent incident, what interest would it be to the public a report on something that didn't happen???

 

[newyorkguy]

You rarely hear about it because the media does not report on such incidents. If it doesn't support their anti-gun bias they tend to ignore it. This issue has been covered here before and a little research will show that to be the case.

How do you hear about it then? A little research, to back up your theory. Fine. I look forward to seeing you post it.

 

[casebro]

On what planet do people just start shooting everyone with a gun? Who shoots without identifying the target?

Surely you have examples of this wild wild west blood in the streets scenario of yours?

Don't you remember the recent ex-cop gone bonkers incident? The REAL COPS opened fire on several different vehicles, some of which didn't even match the description of the perp's car?

 

[DJW]

How do you hear about it then? A little research, to back up your theory. Fine. I look forward to seeing you post it.

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. There absolutely are anti and pro gun agendas. I agree with Autolite's perspective, but check out the NRA's "Armed Citizen" to see some of the instances of positive gun use that gets reported in local news.

 

[newyorkguy]

Absence of evidence is evidence of absence. There absolutely are anti and pro gun agendas. I agree with Autolite's perspective, but check out the NRA's "Armed Citizen" to see some of the instances of positive gun use that gets reported in local news.

I'll look at the link only I'm not saying it doesn't happen. I'm saying as policy arming citizens to defend themselves and come to the aid of other citizens is not good policy. I don't know of any responsible leader who advocates either.

It's barbaric. Where do you people live? I thought my neighborhood was tough.

As for the NRA, I take anything they say with a grain of salt. Because I know they get a lot of their funding from gun manufacturers.

ETA - This is turning into a gun thread. Like many of the people posting here, I don't participate in gun threads.