She's a Grand Old Anti-Flag Burning Amendment

Orwell said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Supreme Court ruled in 1989 that flag burning was a protected act of free speech?
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Hence their need to pass a constitutional amendment.
 
Orwell said:
Although taxes are higher in Canada, they're not murderously higher, specially considering the extras you get (like lower school tuition and cheaper healthcare).
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[baiting]But I thought health care in Canada was all free![/baiting]
 
NPR reported on a flag-protocol "flap" wherin one of the generals in Iraq had a press conference wearing a "flag" shirt.
Some wag pointed out that this is precisely what got Jerry Rubin arrested for back in the 60's....

Of course, Rubin's shirt was made FROM a flag, as opposed to the General's which merely LOOKED like a flag....

They then went on to talk about the "flag code", which details the protocols for handling the flag, but which is in no way law.

At my university, we had the bizzarre case of Howard Mechanic, the protester who was present at the burning of the ROTC building back around 1969.
He was accused of throwing a cherry bomb at police, and had been involved in a flag-burning incident earlier. Mechanic jumped bail, and lived an exemplary life under an assumed name out West till he decided to run for local office.
The local paper checked into his background and found he was a hippie-war protester-flag burner-cherry-bomb tosser. He came back to St. louis, pled, and got a couple of months, as I recall.
 
True story: Madison Heights, Michigan, my place of residence in 1989, had an anti-flag desecration statute. It was a civil offense punishable by a small fine, like a traffic ticket.

Following a complaint by a resident, a policeman issued a ticket to another resident for flag desecration. The offense in question was displaying a flag that was made by the Harley Davidson company. If featured a flag background, with a Harley Davidson motorcycle in the foreground. I thought it was a patriotic, "made in America" statement. The neighbor and the policeman thought it was flag desecration.

Fortunately, it was shortly after the Supreme Court ruling, and the local judge threw out the ticket, and the law, in compliance with the ruling.
 
Orwell said:
Oh, and back to the flag subject: how many episodes of flag burning are there in the USA every year, on average? Does anyone know?
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Oddly enough, I saw one on The Daily Show last night (or the night before?).
 
Mark A. Siefert said:
Yeah, but I'd much rather have a the ability to choose a private provider.
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Or at least use one of the private providers approved by my HMO.


[baiting]But I thought health care in Canada was all free![/baiting]

No, but about 2/3 the cost per capita of the US, and with somewhat better outcomes.

And the flag doesn't burn all that well, it sorta melts. Which is a bitch, cause the flag protocol says that a bedraggled flag must be disposed of in an appropriate manner, as by burning.
 
Mark A. Siefert said:
That's the thing, since the law was "unconstitutional" they have to amend the constitution to make censorship kosher. Of course the flag burning amendment would contradict the first amendments protection of free speech, but that's OK... the proposed constitutional ban on gay marriage would contradict the first amendments prohibition against the establishment of religion.

I'd move to Canada, but I can't say that I care for their level of taxation or their gun laws. I guess I'm stuck here.
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At least they have a balanced budget. I imagine we'll be catching up to Canada and Europe in the tax department in a few years, when the time comes to pay for this war and the baby boomers start retiring.
 
Regnad Kcin said:
Congress Again Debates Protecting the Flag:D
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quote:"It's time to stand up for our symbol. I consider defecating on the flag, urinating on the flag, burning the flag with contempt -- just to mention three -- to be offensive conduct, not speech."-- Sen. Orrin G. Hatch, R-Utah

I see; so speech will remain free in the USA and we can be just as weird and offensive as we want, as long as there are no stars and stripes nearby.

Presumably one can then stand in front of a flag and yell "burn, burn", while playing with one's fly and dropping one's pants and it's all prefectly legal disrespect, as long a no physical harm comes to the cloth.

What if you paint a flag on your butt and then fart (or worse) right through it?

I'm sure Orin Hatch will be able to watch the videos and tell if it was a matter of free speech or offensive conduct and determine the penalty accordingly.

What a waste of time. One would think they have solved all the current problems already and just have nothing better to do this week.
 
Renfield said:
At least they have a balanced budget. I imagine we'll be catching up to Canada and Europe in the tax department in a few years, when the time comes to pay for this war and the baby boomers start retiring.
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Greeaaat. I can hardly wait. :(
 
Bikewer said:
They then went on to talk about the "flag code", which details the protocols for handling the flag, but which is in no way law.
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Which, ironically enough, says that there are situations where you're supposed to burn the flag.
 
Scot C. Trypal said:
Oddly enough, I saw one on The Daily Show last night (or the night before?).
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Even if it were dozens it would be statistically insignificant. And even if it were statistically significant... where's the harm? Where is the harm?

Frankly, I sense congressmen angling for ammunition in preparation for next year's elections. And that's hardly conjecture. My household received a mailer from our state representative last cycle in which he proclaimed his unwavering support for an amendment to not only protect the flag, but one for the institution of marriage also (the message sprinkled with words like "liberal" as well as talk about his proud veteran status and years of service to the same).

It's good that our constitution is so strong, else politicians would surely destroy the country.
 
Ironically, when this thing is passed--I'm not as optimistic as some, there is mid-term election coming up--and there is an increase in flag burning (as there usually is an increase in contraversial speech when government tries to supress it) the conservatives will stand up and scream "See! See! We told you we needed this amendement to punish those dirty, un-american, pot-smoking, hippies and their epidemic of flag buring!"
 
Mark A. Siefert said:
Ironically, when this thing is passed--I'm not as optimistic as some, there is mid-term election coming up--and there is an increase in flag burning (as there usually is an increase in contraversial speech when government tries to supress it) the conservatives will stand up and scream "See! See! We told you we needed this amendement to punish those dirty, un-american, pot-smoking, hippies and their epidemic of flag buring!"
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And conversely, if the current flag-burning rate of almost none continues, they can point it out and say "See? It works!"
 
Will it still be legal to burn the flags of other countries? If so, why? If you're going to pass a law making it illegal to burn the US flag, shouldn't flag burning in general be banned.

Or is the point to send a message that the flags of other countries are not quite as important as the American flag?

Or is the American flag given special consideration as it is more apt to be burned.

As I said in a thread many moons ago about this same subject, if a law is passed in the US banning flag burning, look for me at the border crossing between the US and Canada (on the Canadian side of course) burning an American flag as motorists enter our country.
I would hope that some of you Americans would do the same if Canada ever passed such a stupid law.
 
(Erased)

I posted something to annoy Shanek, but it would quickly degenerate and derail the thread, so never mind...

Apparently, I can't delete this myself. Please get rid of it, Mr. Moderator.
 
what if it was just a flag which looked like the American flag (with 14 stripes and 49 stars, for example)?
 
As a (quasi) veteran of the armed forces, I can tell you how retarded this subject gets, especially when you are just trying to do your darn job and some psychophants show up yelling at you about not treating the flag correctly even though you had no idea the "flag" was even involved in what you are doing!
 
LawnOven said:
what if it was just a flag which looked like the American flag (with 14 stripes and 49 stars, for example)?
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At least one of the previous bills included that "type" of flag as well - anything designed to represent an actual U.S. flag was subject to the proposed law.

Scot C. Trypal said:
Oddly enough, I saw one on The Daily Show last night (or the night before?).
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Wasn't that clip from an overseas protest? They burn a fair number of USAian flags in the Middle East.
 
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