She's a Grand Old Anti-Flag Burning Amendment

[Regnad Kcin]

Congress Again Debates Protecting the Flag

"It's time to stand up for our symbol. I consider defecating on the flag, urinating on the flag, burning the flag with contempt -- just to mention three -- to be offensive conduct, not speech." -- Sen. Orrin G. Hatch, R-Utah

"The reason our flag is different is because it stands for burning the flag. The Constitution this week is being nibbled to death by small men with press secretaries." -- Rep. Gary L. Ackerman, D-N.Y.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I wonder what the legal definition of "desecration" is. Can one throw away a styrofoam cup with the flag on it? Can one wear a sexy undergarment with a flag on it? Can one get a tattoo of the flag, knowing that it will get dirty? Is a flag towel desecration? How about growing an image of the flag in a flowerbed with precisely-placed and properly colored flowers? Sure, it looks patriotic, but if one uses manure to nourish the flowers, is one liable to arrest?

We can expect all these absurdities and more, thanks to people attempting to fix a problem that isn't really there.

Anyone else think it odd that someone would attempt to put the word "desecration" into a secular constitution?

 

[merphie]

I wonder what the legal definition of "desecration" is. Can one throw away a styrofoam cup with the flag on it? Can one wear a sexy undergarment with a flag on it? Can one get a tattoo of the flag, knowing that it will get dirty? Is a flag towel desecration? How about growing an image of the flag in a flowerbed with precisely-placed and properly colored flowers? Sure, it looks patriotic, but if one uses manure to nourish the flowers, is one liable to arrest?

We can expect all these absurdities and more, thanks to people attempting to fix a problem that isn't really there.

Anyone else think it odd that someone would attempt to put the word "desecration" into a secular constitution?

I think all of those uses are technically illegal but not enforced.

 

[HarryKeogh]

go to any July 4th barbecue and witness flag desecration as flag-emblazoned napkins are used to dab mustard from the corners of mouths across the nation.

this is an incredible waste of time and money.

not to mention the free speech aspect.

 

[Phil]

"The reason our flag is different is because it stands for burning the flag. The Constitution this week is being nibbled to death by small men with press secretaries." -- Rep. Gary L. Ackerman, D-N.Y.

I just love this line.

 

[Manny]

Anyone else think it odd that someone would attempt to put the word "desecration" into a secular constitution?

Yep. Buncha dumbasses. Right now we're seeing protests over alleged Koran desecration and I think most Americans don't care because they understand that even if the charges were true it's unimportant because the words and ideas are important, not the book. Then this thing comes along.

Feh.

 

[drkitten]

I think most Americans don't care because they understand that even if the charges were true it's unimportant because the words and ideas are important, not the book.

I disagree.

I think most Americans don't care because they believe it's the wrong book; desecrating the Koran doesn't matter because it's just a heathen/infidel book of lies (and therefore evil anyway), while desecrating the Bible, or the US flag, is important because they are both good.

 

[corplinx]

Its become a tradition each year for the house to pass this bill and for the senate to vote it down. I think its a nice statement about love of country versus discretion and rule of law.

 

[DaChew]

I disagree.

I think most Americans don't care because they believe it's the wrong book; desecrating the Koran doesn't matter because it's just a heathen/infidel book of lies (and therefore evil anyway), while desecrating the Bible, or the US flag, is important because they are both good.

I will disagree at least slightly. About a year or so ago, Palestinian gunmen occupied the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem for a period of time. They reportedly trashed the place and used the Bible as toilet paper. I don't recall the sort of outrage and mayhem resulting in the western world as happened in the Muslim world over a bogus Newsweek story of Koran desecration. There is a difference of scale here that should be noted.

 

[shanek]

Tim Slagle does (or, at least, did) a routine where he sets the Bill of Rights on fire, and the American flag spontaneously combusts. He's received tons of complaints and has even been banned from several venues because he burned the flag.

I don't think he ever received a single complaint about him burning the Bill of Rights.

I think that's very telling.

 

[Orwell]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Supreme Court ruled in 1989 that flag burning was a protected act of free speech?

If I recall correctly, every time this has been brought up since then, it's been killed in the Senate. But given the current political climate, I wouldn't be surprised if it passed this time.

 

[Orwell]

From the article linked above:

The measure was designed to overturn a 1989 decision by the Supreme Court, which ruled 5-4 that flag burning was a protected free-speech right.

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Supreme Court ruled in 1989 that flag burning was a protected act of free speech?

That's the thing, since the law was "unconstitutional" they have to amend the constitution to make censorship kosher. Of course the flag burning amendment would contradict the first amendments protection of free speech, but that's OK... the proposed constitutional ban on gay marriage would contradict the first amendments prohibition against the establishment of religion.

I'd move to Canada, but I can't say that I care for their level of taxation or their gun laws. I guess I'm stuck here.

 

[CapelDodger]

I will disagree at least slightly. About a year or so ago, Palestinian gunmen occupied the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem for a period of time. They reportedly trashed the place and used the Bible as toilet paper. I don't recall the sort of outrage and mayhem resulting in the western world as happened in the Muslim world over a bogus Newsweek story of Koran desecration. There is a difference of scale here that should be noted.

Many Palestinians in Bethlehem are Christians, who were unlikely to "trash" the Church. The place necessarily became a dungheap because dozens of men were corralled inside and were shot at when they tried to defecate outside. The priests of the church didn't make these claims, but reserved their criticisms for the Israelis who invaded their town. Minds hungry for such claims, of course, don't bother to wonder whether or not they're credible.

 

[Orwell]

Ok major thread highjacking, but I feel that I have to defend Canada!

According to this site: http://www.worldwide-tax.com/index.asp#partthree

In Canada, corporate taxes hover around Canada 32-40%, individual taxes are generally in the 16-29% range, and VAT are about 7%.

In the US, it's 35% for corporate taxes, and 0-35% for individual taxes, and no VAT.

Although taxes are higher in Canada, they're not murderously higher, specially considering the extras you get (like lower school tuition and cheaper healthcare).

 

[Orwell]

Oh, and back to the flag subject: how many episodes of flag burning are there in the USA every year, on average? Does anyone know?

 

[Achán hiNidráne]

Although taxes are higher in Canada, they're not murderously higher, specially considering the extras you get (like lower school tuition and cheaper healthcare).

Yeah, but I'd much rather have a the ability to choose a private provider.

 

[gnome]

Oh, and back to the flag subject: how many episodes of flag burning are there in the USA every year, on average? Does anyone know?

This is second-hand information, but someone in a similar thread on another forum said that there had been 1 reported instance last year.

 

[Orwell]

Yeah, but I'd much rather have a the ability to choose a private provider.

Okee dokee, Mr. hard-to-please! Stay where you are then.

 

[Orwell]

This is second-hand information, but someone in a similar thread on another forum said that there had been 1 reported instance last year.

Woa, that sounds too good to be true! I say this in the sense that it would make going around making laws to protect the flag (when in fact flag desecration is rarely reported) sound absurd.