Shermer vs. Fetzer: Bad Idea

Totovader said:
No, he's on our payroll- along with Judy Wood.
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Ixnay on the isinformation-day gents-ay.
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Unfit4Command said:
Where did people get the idea that the buildings could support 2000% of their live load?
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I'd guess that the live-load is insignificant compared to the dead-load so the quote may actually be true. For example, if the column is designed to support a dead-load of 10,000 pounds and a live-load of 30 pounds increasing the live load by 2000% really makes no difference.

Please note that those are just random numbers I am using for example purposes.
 
Just curious - any links (video or audio or even transcript) to debates that Gravy has had?
 
He also goes on to suggest that flight 77 flew OVER the Pentagon and just didn't hit it. That one is new to me.
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And Fetzer "proudly" links to this?

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Considering how often uncle Fester switched topics and rambled nonsensically, the very few words from Shermer highlighted the sheer lunacy from Fester. Can't believe he tried to verbally intimidate on the radio just like his touchy-feely crap against Gravy on Hardfire. I don't think it was a woo friendly host more than it was a host giving uncle Fester enough rope.
 
Hyperviolet said:
Gravy Vs Fetzer pt 1 : http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...l=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=1

Gravy Vs Fetzer pt 2 : http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-5795767092800734293

Gravy Vs Fetzer pt 3: http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay...l=5&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
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Yeah, Gravy does better than Shermer in those, yet they show that even someone as knowledgeable and quick-thinking as Gravy can have trouble in front of Fetzer's stupid-bukkake firehose...
 
~enigma~ said:
Considering how often uncle Fester switched topics and rambled nonsensically, the very few words from Shermer highlighted the sheer lunacy from Fester. Can't believe he tried to verbally intimidate on the radio just like his touchy-feely crap against Gravy on Hardfire. I don't think it was a woo friendly host more than it was a host giving uncle Fester enough rope.
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I guess that's a plausible interpretation too -- perhaps the way we feel about these things depends on exactly how we try to put ourselves in the shoes of someone who is new to the topic and doesn't already have a lot of preconceived notions about the issues and the people in the debate. I sometimes go on the assumption that a naive newcomer to the topic might see the guy who talks endlessly and doesn't let anyone else get a word in edgewise as being confident and knowledgeable, which could make a positive impression, but on the other hand...
 
Ack, what a travesty. Fetzer just screams the same talking points over and over again. It is almost not even worth debunking the idiot anymore though, Fetzer is pretty much marginalized in his own movement.
 
I may need to read "Why People Believe Weird Things" again, but I'd have sworn Shermer was a proponent of never engaging these doofs (if memory serves, he was talking about Holocaust deniers at the time) in a debate for the very reasons he shouldn't have done this one.
 
tacodaemon said:
I guess that's a plausible interpretation too -- perhaps the way we feel about these things depends on exactly how we try to put ourselves in the shoes of someone who is new to the topic and doesn't already have a lot of preconceived notions about the issues and the people in the debate. I sometimes go on the assumption that a naive newcomer to the topic might see the guy who talks endlessly and doesn't let anyone else get a word in edgewise as being confident and knowledgeable, which could make a positive impression, but on the other hand...
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I really believe that if an idiot like uncle Fester were actually given unopposed TV time he would singlehandedly be the end of the 9/11 woo. Before the breakup of scholars for 9/11 truth even Steven Jones said Fetzer was NOT a good spokesman for 9/11 truth. His antics unchecked would be a definite death rattle for the woo.
 
~enigma~ said:
I really believe that if an idiot like uncle Fester were actually given unopposed TV time he would singlehandedly be the end of the 9/11 woo. Before the breakup of scholars for 9/11 truth even Steven Jones said Fetzer was NOT a good spokesman for 9/11 truth. His antics unchecked would be a definite death rattle for the woo.
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Jim Fetzer: The Firehose of Stupid
 
tacodaemon said:
Yeah, Gravy does better than Shermer in those, yet they show that even someone as knowledgeable and quick-thinking as Gravy can have trouble in front of Fetzer's stupid-bukkake firehose...
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Gravy was slow-paced in the 1st episode, granted. However, come parts 2 & 3 it just gets embarressing for Fetzer.

I just listened to the Shermer debate. Man, oh man, Fetzer is constantly inserting little falsehoods and factoids casuistically to add impact to his argument.
Example being: The supposed safety factor of 20.
It's points like these where Fetzer attempts a hit-and-run without challenge from Shermer, who simply has not studied the topic as meticulously as Mark.

Michael makes a logical case, unfortunately, it's just not enough against the moonbat Fetzer, who to the unsuspecting listener, might have sounded like the expert (as troublesome as that is).
 
~enigma~ said:
I really believe that if an idiot like uncle Fester were actually given unopposed TV time he would singlehandedly be the end of the 9/11 woo.
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That's a GOOD point. Someone shouldn't try to counter him with facts during a debate, they should ask questions to lead the discussion and just let Fetzer show the crowd how insane he is.
 
CurtC said:
That's a GOOD point. Someone shouldn't try to counter him with facts during a debate, they should ask questions to lead the discussion and just let Fetzer show the crowd how insane he is.
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Was it Socrates or Aristotle that was a big fan of that methodology?
 
If I ever debate Fetzer, I want Gravy in the audience. His job will be to push a button every time Fetzer lies. The button (and associated high-voltage power supply) will, ideally, be attached to an airhorn, although I am not opposed to it being wired directly to Fetzer's nether regions. That way, the audience will be alerted to the fact that there are more lies than the ones I specifically choose to address.
 
Mercutio said:
If I ever debate Fetzer, I want Gravy in the audience. His job will be to push a button every time Fetzer lies. The button (and associated high-voltage power supply) will, ideally, be attached to an airhorn, although I am not opposed to it being wired directly to Fetzer's nether regions. That way, the audience will be alerted to the fact that there are more lies than the ones I specifically choose to address.
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I humbly propose replacing the airhorn with a cuckoo clock sound.
 
On the other hand, I think it's useful to take a step back at times from the minutiae and express some of the outrage that we all felt early in this process. I know that for all of the substantive debunking in the History Channel special, my favorite moment was when Davin Coburn dismissed the voice-morphed phone calls as "just plain offensive". It was the least substantive debunking of the night, and yet it was a slam dunk. Remember, we are not being judged by a high school forensics team; we are being judged by the general public.

That said, you do have to at least know the minutiae.
 
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