Sheriff Joe Arapio slapped down by judge.

[JoeTheJuggler]

I think it's worse than that, Checkmite.. it's as if someone is trying to convince us that racism isn't real because there are no such things as races.

Exactly!

As if the fact that there is no rational basis for racism means there is no such thing as racism!

That kind of reasoning makes my head spin.

 

[BenBurch]

Well, first, no such thing as race exists in any significant genetic sense, but you do have a situation where people from certain areas are often distinguishable by their look, and this invites discrimination. This is racial profiling in the sense that any nation was referred to as a "race" in times past. In fact it doesn't matter to the discrimination if you guess wrong. If you discriminate against a Spaniard because you think him Mexican, you have still discriminated.

 

[SezMe]

The notion that the police can't find people who are of Mexican, central America and Latin American decent to ask them for papers is probably the most pathetic argument I've ever heard.

Nice typo.

 

[Minoosh]

How could a police officer tell the difference between white Anglo Saxons from Latinos. I just don't get it.

The thing is, those Latinos are not in a pool consisting of Latinos and Anglo Saxons. There are Native Americans, for example. And think about the gene pool of the conquistadores/explorers: Moors/Arabs dominated Spain in the 15th century. Escapees/slave revolts resulted in lots of African genes along the Caribbean coast, including in Mexico.

I know of a little Iranian girl who's been told she's Mexican, and you wouldn't know by looking, one way or another.

There are cultural markers that might make me suspect someone is Mexican vs. Mexican American, but they are fairly subtle.

 

[Mudcat]

No. Your words stand. Instead of re-writing what you wrote you could have simply copied and pasted. That way I couldn't accuse you of editing your remarks to make them more palatable.

Or maybe you could actually read what I wrote and comprehend it so I don't have to reword it for you.

Your logic is that anyone here illegally is "criminal scum" because they can't prove otherwise. There's a whole entire world of presumption and fallacy in there. To explain the racial disparity of prison populations an old associate of my father used to say, "that's because blacks commit more crime".

Here is where your lack of comprehension of what I wrote fails you, badly. No, not all illegals here in the states are some kind of criminal or terrorist. I'm sure a lot of them aren't in fact.

But it makes sense that people that are here illegally or more likely to be criminal than those that are not.

I admit that I maybe wrong though, as the best statistic I can dig up says that legal immigrants are less likely to commit a crime than native born Americans.

 

[RandFan]

Or maybe you could actually read what I wrote and comprehend it so I don't have to reword it for you.

Here is where your lack of comprehension of what I wrote fails you, badly. No, not all illegals here in the states are some kind of criminal or terrorist. I'm sure a lot of them aren't in fact.

But it makes sense that people that are here illegally or more likely to be criminal than those that are not.

I admit that I maybe wrong though, as the best statistic I can dig up says that legal immigrants are less likely to commit a crime than native born Americans.

• Your citations are missing. I don't care (and I'm quite sure no one else does) about your anecdotal data.
• You called them criminal scum. Your words. Don't blame what you say on my reading comprehension. Grow a pair and own your words. If they are embarrassing then take them back and apologize. No need for all of the obfuscation.

 

[RandFan]

The thing is, those Latinos are not in a pool consisting of Latinos and Anglo Saxons. There are Native Americans, for example. And think about the gene pool of the conquistadores/explorers: Moors/Arabs dominated Spain in the 15th century. Escapees/slave revolts resulted in lots of African genes along the Caribbean coast, including in Mexico.

I know of a little Iranian girl who's been told she's Mexican, and you wouldn't know by looking, one way or another.

There are cultural markers that might make me suspect someone is Mexican vs. Mexican American, but they are fairly subtle.

Hence the need for "papers please". Great opportunity to harass ordinary Americans. If you aren't white Anglo Saxon then expect to be stopped and asked for papers.

 

[Mudcat]

• Your citations are missing. I don't care (and I'm quite sure no one else does) about your anecdotal data.

Tell it to the Centers for Imigration Studies. They're the ones that provided the information that immigrants, legal and possibly illegal, aren't as likely to commit crimes as native born Americans here. I'll be expecting an apology for accusing me of providing anecdotal data, by the way.

• You called them criminal scum. Your words. Don't blame what you say on my reading comprehension. Grow a pair and own your words. If they are embarrassing then take them back and apologize. No need for all of the obfuscation.

Or you could try to read it again. Here is the original selection in question that you seem to be struggling with so hard:

I agree but disagree at the same time. Illegals should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law because there is no way to insure that they aren't criminal scum or even worse, which is the point of legal immigration when you boil down the process to it's simplest components.

I see no point in here where I say that all illegals are criminal scum, and how you get that from this quote is unfathomable to me.

I've posted it, and even reworded it for you and here it is for you again. If it still stumps you than the problem isn't on my end.

 

[Minoosh]

But it makes sense that people that are here illegally or more likely to be criminal than those that are not.

It doesn't follow, IMO. I think most are looking for work. If they were really crooks, their opportunities in Mexico might have been better. "It makes sense" is your opinion, I have mine and I don't have the stats either. Maybe it could be teased out by checking immigration status in jails and doing some extrapolating.

 

[RandFan]

Tell it to the Centers for Imigration Studies. They're the ones that provided the information that immigrants, legal and possibly illegal, aren't as likely to commit crimes as native born Americans here. I'll be expecting an apology for accusing me of providing anecdotal data, by the way.

You are the one who neglected a cite. The apology must come from you.

Illegals should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law because there is no way to insure that they aren't criminal scum or even worse

Why not round them all up and shoot them? Seriously? Hey, feminists like to say that you are a potential rapist. You are a potential law breaker. Perhaps we should call you scum? Do you think that is fair? I think everyone is entitled to due process and presumption of innocence. You are the one who is condemning them all.

There is no mystery here. Let me post it again.

Illegals should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law because there is no way to insure that they aren't criminal scum or even worse

That's presumptuous and, IMO, asinine.

I see no point in here where I say that all illegals are criminal scum, and how you get that from this quote is unfathomable to me.

I see a point where you think ALL illegals should be prosecuted because there is no way to insure that they aren't criminal scum. That's pretty odious.

I've posted it...

Hell, I've posted it twice. It's something I couldn't say about a stranger. Oddly enough you did.

If it still stumps you than the problem isn't on my end.

One more time, there is no mystery. You said they ALL should be prosecuted because there is no way to know that they aren't criminal scum. That's disgusting. Feminists like to say all men are potential rapists. You are doing the same ignorant stereotyping. Without any facts you demonize an entire group of people and then try and soft sell it.

Sell it someone place else.

 

[RandFan]

Oh, as for being "criminal scum", many serve in our military, many are killed and maimed. If you honestly think there is no way to determine if a person who gave his or her life for your country isn't criminal scum then you have some real problems.

Immigrant Veterans Face Deportation Despite Military Service If They Run Afoul of U.S. Law

 

[Mudcat]

I think most are looking for work.

I'm looking for work. I don't put myself or my family at risk in a long, hard, potentially dangerous journey to take up illegal residence in a foreign country I have no ties in where everyone looks at me suspiciously and I could be deported if I was caught in order to find work, though.

I think I found a flaw in that plan.

 

[Mudcat]

Do you think that is fair? I think everyone is entitled to due process and presumption of innocence.

If they're here illegally than they're guilty of at least one law. Presumption of innocence need not apply.

 

[RandFan]

I'm looking for work. I don't put myself or my family at risk in a long, hard, potentially dangerous journey to take up illegal residence in a foreign country I have no ties in where everyone looks at me suspiciously and I could be deported if I was caught in order to find work, though.

I think I found a flaw in that plan.

Were you facing homelessness and no work or ability to feed your family? I think I found a flaw in your philosophy. Hating people or having hard feelings for human beings who are trying to feed their family is a rather harsh thing. We evolved for survival. We evolved for caring for our family. They risk their lives to come here. Some of us evolved empathy and compassion. It's fine to enforce our laws (deportations and record levels). But let's not forget that these are human beings who are facing tough times and were probably not born with your advantages.

It's not okay to break our laws but there are much worse laws to break.

 

[RandFan]

If they're here illegally than they're guilty of at least one law. Presumption of innocence need not apply.

Everyone who is guilty of breaking one law is a "criminal scum"? Really? Are you honestly saying you have never broken the law? Or are you special because you are here legally and therefore are allowed to break the law?

 

[Mudcat]

Were you facing homelessness and no work or ability to feed your family?

I don't have a family (the bit about the family was a hypothetical) but I was looking at homelessness. Again.

Instead of doing something stupid like taking a potentially dangerous journey to a distant country where I would be treated as being suspicious I did the smart thing and moved back in with my mom so I could have a better chance to find a job in a larger city with better prospects of a job.

 

[Mudcat]

Are you honestly saying you have never broken the law?

I have never consciously broken the law, no.

 

[Minoosh]

Hence the need for "papers please". Great opportunity to harass ordinary Americans. If you aren't white Anglo Saxon then expect to be stopped and asked for papers.

My point actually was that some redneck deputy could easily get it wrong, even if they were trying to profile. I don't know much about what deputies' criteria were for stops. Twenty people in a van with bald tires would be much more specific, for example.

The BP does have a permanent "papers please" checkpoints some distance from the border. So, it must be acceptable to the feds under some circumstances. Also, if you see a bunch of wiry people in sandals carrying gallon jugs of water through brutal desert terrain, then suspicions would be reasonable. In urban areas it would largely be a waste of to target Latinos. I wasn't arguing that such a practice was fair.

Though requests for proof of citizenship seems onerous to a lot of Americans, why in itself would it be so bad? Please be aware, this is a devil's advocate type question.

 

[RandFan]

I don't have a family (the bit about the family was a hypothetical) but I was looking at homelessness. Again.

Instead of doing something stupid like taking a potentially dangerous journey to a distant country where I would be treated as being suspicious I did the smart thing and moved back in with my mom so I could have a better chance to find a job in a larger city with better prospects of a job.

That doesn't work very well in Mexico. I'm sorry you have such a naive view of Nations that are not as well off as America. If might work for some but for many their parents don't have the money to care for their families either. Simplistic answers to complex problems are almost always wrong and/or simply ineffective.

This might come as a surprise but Mexicans aren't stupid. No matter what you've heard from the GOP leadership. They are people willing to risk their lives and freedom to feed their family.

I don't mind people wanting to do something about people coming here illegally. I don't see anything to gain by demonizing them.

 

[Mudcat]

This might come as a surprise but Mexicans aren't stupid. They are people willing to risk their lives and freedom to feed their family.

Not stupid? If they die on the way here who will take care of the family then?

How is that not stupid?