Sharpshooter and JFK

Gawdzilla said:
Unlikely based on what? Ballistics or a desire to promote another theory? Just wondering.
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The game has a very complex ballistics model which makes it very unlikely, but the makers made the game in order to support the "magic bullet" theory.
 
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dtugg said:
Myth Busted!

Unsolved History: JFK - Beyond the Magic Bullet.
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I don't think that's what he was asking for. He asked about the "shot that Oswald took to kill Kennedy." The "Magic Bullet" shot was the first one to hit Kennedy, was almost certainly Oswald's second shot, but was not the one that killed him.

Your link talks about the single-bullet theory and whether it's plausible that a bullet that took that path would end up looking like it did (relatively little damage to it).

I think the OP is asking about whether a shooter could get off three shots in eight seconds and still hit the target. Back when the Warren Commission was investigating, some people thought that all three shots were fired in about six seconds. In some testing, most shooters were not able to get three shots to hit their targets in that time frame (but Robert Frazier did). But the fact is, Oswald's shots actually spanned about 8.4 seconds, a leisurely pace that took no particular skill.
 
CurtC said:
I don't think that's what he was asking for. He asked about the "shot that Oswald took to kill Kennedy." The "Magic Bullet" shot was the first one to hit Kennedy, was almost certainly Oswald's second shot, but was not the one that killed him.
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Regardless, I'm unaware of any reason to think that anyone other than Oswald was involved in the shooting. All problems with it have been roundly debunked.
 
Infoexcavator said:
The game has a very complex ballistics model which makes it very unlikely, but the makers made the game in order to support the "magic bullet" theory.
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The problem is that LHO wasn't trying to ricochet bullets one way or another and wasn't, as far as we know, trying to shoot Governor Connolly. The fact that it easy to have made a shot that would have killed JFK is what the game seems to (seeks to?) demonstrate.

If you're trying to get a particular ricochet then this seems tantamount to asking for someone not to shoot a bullseye but to shoot into exactly the same hole left by someone else's bullseye shot which is beside the point.
 
angrysoba said:
If you're trying to get a particular ricochet then this seems tantamount to asking for someone not to shoot a bullseye but to shoot into exactly the same hole left by someone else's bullseye shot which is beside the point.
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Which is the point I was making in post #17; the whole issue is a classic example of the a priori/a posteriori fallacy. It's not relevant that it would be extremely difficult to reproduce exactly Oswald's shot, in particular the detailed behaviour of the bullet after it had first struck Kennedy; rather, it's relevant that a shot with that general level of accuracy was not particularly difficult at that range.

Dave
 
Gawdzilla said:
Ah, so built-in bias in the software. Loverly.
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Please, stop being so suspicious. People have gotten nearly perfect scores in the game with just tiny differences from what actually happened, it drives the point home that the shooting could easily be performed by just one shooter.
 
Infoexcavator said:
Please, stop being so suspicious. People have gotten nearly perfect scores in the game with just tiny differences from what actually happened, it drives the point home that the shooting could easily be performed by just one shooter.
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Okay, "but the makers made the game in order to support the "magic bullet" theory. " threw me.

But if you want me to stop being analytical (not suspicious), good luck with that. ;)
 
If a bullet can zig-zag in mid-air, then I must be Darth Vader! :p

Bullets fly straight until gravity takes an effect on them. They never zig-zag!
 
Infoexcavator said:
This post reminded me of video game made of the JFK assassination called JFK Reloaded where the player gets points based on how close to the actual murder you can get, it is very morbid but it quite convincingly shows that the events were possible, it is just very unlikely to get every bullet to ricochet exactly like they did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK:_Reloaded
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Thought the same thing.

It's pretty much impossible to get full score on the game, which you would get to shoot all three shots with the same effects as Oswald's three shots. The makers of the game tried to sell this a conspiracy point that Oswald's achievement were impossible.

They overlooked that it's ridiculously easy, within their game, to achieve the main goal: To kill JFK.
 
Bill Thompson said:
Can you tell me when a sharpshooter was used to demonstrate that they could make the same kill that Oswald made? I have been googling it and I have not found anything.
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This was done (I think by PBS's NOVA-but I'm not sure) with several volunteers. I don't believe all were sharpshooters or expert riflemen. A track was constructed with the same slope as Elm St. in Dealy Plaza. A cart with a torso sized target was pulled along the track at the same speed as the presidential limousine. The shooters were in a six story tower and used the same type rifle used by Oswald. I can't recall the specifics but all hit the target at least once or twice, and in the same time frame as indicated on the Zapruder film. If this was the NOVA episode it may have been the one done in November of 1988. Perhaps someone here can provide specifics.
 
elgarak said:
Thought the same thing.

It's pretty much impossible to get full score on the game, which you would get to shoot all three shots with the same effects as Oswald's three shots. The makers of the game tried to sell this a conspiracy point that Oswald's achievement were impossible.

They overlooked that it's ridiculously easy, within their game, to achieve the main goal: To kill JFK.
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Well, maybe you have some extra knowledge but the makers did say that they wanted to show that it was not a conspiracy.

From this article: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2004/nov/22/usnews.games

"We genuinely believe that, if we get enough people participating, we'll be able to disprove, once and for all, any notion that someone else was involved in the assassination of President Kennedy," he said.

"The computer ballistics model says it's possible, but players will discover just how hard it is to place those three bullets in exactly the same way that Oswald did."

The key word is exactly, it's easy to make the shots at correct times, but getting all the terminal ballistics to act like they did in real life is unlikely but possible.
 
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9/11 Chewy Defense said:
If a bullet can zig-zag in mid-air, then I must be Darth Vader! :p

Bullets fly straight until gravity takes an effect on them. They never zig-zag!
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The bullet did not zig zag..It did not have to... It may have been the programmmentioned above but it was shown that modl of car the rear seat Kenenedy was sitting is is elevated and positioned to the left of the passenger seat looking at the car from the front. The bullet really traveled pretty much the way it was expected
 
brobradh77 said:
The bullet did not zig zag..It did not have to... It may have been the programmmentioned above but it was shown that modl of car the rear seat Kenenedy was sitting is is elevated and positioned to the left of the passenger seat looking at the car from the front. The bullet really traveled pretty much the way it was expected
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No kidding! :rolleyes:
 
the bullet flew straight. no zig-zagging took place.

stop watching Oliver Stone movies to get your history.
 
The recreation of Oswald's shots was done by CBS in 1967. A clip of that was in a CBS "48 Hours" show which I think was shown in 1992. I have a poor VHS copy here which I just looked at. It shows the setup and some of the dozen shooters who participated actually shooting. Using an identical rifle and scope and within the time frame indicated on the Zapruder film one guy had three hits and most if not all the rest had two hits. Bottom line- they proved it was quite possible for Oswald to do what he was accused of doing.
 
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