Sharon says Israel will remove settlements...

[a_unique_person]

Nice way to backpedal there, you said, "Israel, even if it gives the Palestinians everything they want, will still be subject to attacks. Get used to it." This is an implication that you know if Israel does everything it suppose to it won't make a bit of difference. Hence, I and to a bigger extend Jocko, replied asking you what is then the incentive for Israel to do that if they will still be subject to homicide bombers?

Back Pedal? All I am doing is going on what has happened in similar circumstances. You build up enough ill will and it won't be going away in day, or a week.

What is the incentive for Israel to pull out? The incentive is to stop occupying land that is not theirs and comply with international law. There are many Israelis who see no point in it, even David Ben Gurion thought it was a mistake. The longer they stay, the worse it gets, is that incentive enough?

 

[Grammatron]

Back Pedal? All I am doing is going on what has happened in similar circumstances. You build up enough ill will and it won't be going away in day, or a week.

What is the incentive for Israel to pull out? The incentive is to stop occupying land that is not theirs and comply with international law. There are many Israelis who see no point in it, even David Ben Gurion thought it was a mistake. The longer they stay, the worse it gets, is that incentive enough?

It's not only an incentive but what Israel should do and I agree with you on this point. What I don't agree is that after they concede everything they are suppose to they will have to just sit there and keep getting attacked.

I only have one question for you, so please answer it.

If Palestinian leadership has no interest in stopping groups like Hamas, who should and how?

 

[Grammatron]

I was tossing up if this is a strawman or a lie. As you are not stupid and can read I conclude its a lie. I agree that this statement is sheer lunacy. I suppose you can show where I have said that?
You seem to enjoy making things up as you go along, I would encourage you to check what I actually post before you invent my opinions.
I'll help you out...here is the statement you are currently misrepresenting.

"I also cannot see it ending if the Palestinian terrorists stop attacking. Thats been tried before but the settlements just rolled on regardless and the terrorists went back to bombing civilians and the IDF went back to shooting terrorists and bystanders...situation normal."

please show me where I said that palestinian terrorist groups can attack israel and kill all the civilians they want. That is a clear statement that I offer concent and support to that activity...That is a lie and typical of you.

Ok, I will show you and any other time you need help with reading please do not hesitate to ask.

AUP said "Israel, even if it gives the Palestinians everything they want, will still be subject to attacks. Get used to it" and then you said in regards to that "I agree with him that this is not going to end if and when the IDF and the settlers say "goodbye and thanks for all the target practice" I also cannot see it ending if the Palestinian terrorists stop attacking." adding to that the fact based on your previous posts that you believe Israel should not attack anyone in Palestinian territory I do not see any repercussions for groups like Hamas when it comes to attacks on Israel.

Please tell me who will peruse and punish these groups who carry out attacks on the hypothetical Israel who conceded to all UN demands.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Grammatron

Hey, don't get me wrong, I'm all for anything that brings peace. However, lets say all the illegal -- and let's not forget that each faction views illegal in a different manner than others -- are removed and suicide attacks still happen. What should be the course of action then?

My opinion:

If every reasonable demand is met and they still want war, then the only option left is to give them war until they don't want it anymore.

What drives me bonkers is that these discussions happen and everyone moans and cries over how Israel isn't doing enough for peace, how the efforts of Sharon (or whoever) are not enough or is misrepresented, yet nobody mentions that the other side of the equation, the Palestinian-Arabs, have done exactly nothing to promote peace. Who is making the first step here?

Originally posted by a_unique_person

Israel, even if it gives the Palestinians everything they want, will still be subject to attacks. Get used to it. They asked themselves over there. The Palestinians didn't invite them in. Over time, with some luck and goodwill, there will be peace.

This has to be the absolute sickest thing I’ve ever read. You’re the same fellow who moans over the “humiliation” Palestinian-Arabs suffer from being stopped at checkpoints, who wants to talk about ethnic slurs while people are dying, and then you turn around and say Israel will just have to “get used to” its citizens dying.

I don’t think people dying is something to “get used to.” We can and should expect civilized behavior from the Palestinian-Arabs just as we do from the Israelis. Murder is not excusable. Recognizing that there will be radicals who will sabotage peace does not excuse the Palestinian-Arabs as a whole from the responsibility of acting like a civilized society and doing their best to root out these radicals who will continue to promote terror and sabotage peace.

 

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Grammatron

This is, quite frankly, stupid. You are, just like your buddy AUP, saying that terrorist groups in Palestine can attack Israel and kill all the civilians they want and get away with it even after Israel does all it is suppose to do under UN resolution, however, Israel can't attack those terrorist in Palestine because some innocent bystandards might get hurt, sheer lunacy.

And it's the double-standard that equates to racism.

 

[The Fool]

Ok, I will show you and any other time you need help with reading please do not hesitate to ask.

AUP said "Israel, even if it gives the Palestinians everything they want, will still be subject to attacks. Get used to it" and then you said in regards to that "I agree with him that this is not going to end if and when the IDF and the settlers say "goodbye and thanks for all the target practice" I also cannot see it ending if the Palestinian terrorists stop attacking." adding to that the fact based on your previous posts that you believe Israel should not attack anyone in Palestinian territory I do not see any repercussions for groups like Hamas when it comes to attacks on Israel.

Please tell me who will peruse and punish these groups who carry out attacks on the hypothetical Israel who conceded to all UN demands.

so?....what do you think you have demonstrated? I said I didn't think the violence would end if Israel suddenly up and left the palestinians alone and I couldn't see it ending if the Palestinian terrorists suddenly stopped the bombings....do you disagree?

so once more, and I am patient...take your time but please show me where I said that palestinian terrorist groups can attack israel and kill all the civilians they want. That is a clear statement that I offer concent and support to that activity...That is a lie and typical of you.

 

[The Fool]

And it's the double-standard that equates to racism.

I fully agree, that statement is riddled with double-standard. They are Grammatrons words.Please show me where I have made such a statement


Lol...hey, maybe you could help Grammatron out with his little credability problem? He can't find where I have said this, maybe you could?

 

[Grammatron]

so?....what do you think you have demonstrated? I said I didn't think the violence would end if Israel suddenly up and left the palestinians alone and I couldn't see it ending if the Palestinian terrorists suddenly stopped the bombings....do you disagree?

so once more, and I am patient...take your time but please show me where I said that palestinian terrorist groups can attack israel and kill all the civilians they want. That is a clear statement that I offer concent and support to that activity...That is a lie and typical of you.

I clearly demonstrated that you don't care about Peace you just care that evil Israel doesn't attack the poor defenseless Palestinian Terrorist who only want to kill babies in with out being targeted in return. You can go ahead and continue to be ignorant though.

 

[The Fool]

I clearly demonstrated that you don't care about Peace you just care that evil Israel doesn't attack the poor defenseless Palestinian Terrorist who only want to kill babies in with out being targeted in return. You can go ahead and continue to be ignorant though.

Whats this, a new tactic? If you can't substantiate the first lie just add another one.... How about we just form a queue of your lies and you can get to this latest one after you have shown some evidence to support the first lie....

So still on the original lie.... please show me where I said that palestinian terrorist groups can attack israel and kill all the civilians they want. That is a clear statement that I offer concent and support to that activity...That is a lie and typical of you.

 

[The Fool]

Its just dawned on me why all you Sharon apologists wet yourselves with glee when that Sheikh whatshisname arrived and started being an apologist for hamas terrorists....You finally had someone who supports terrorism! No need to fabricate statements and attribute them to people who critisize sharon and his lickspittles. I feel sad for the ordinary people of Israel being led down a one way dead end by Idiots and clowns.

 

[a_unique_person]

My opinion:

If every reasonable demand is met and they still want war, then the only option left is to give them war until they don't want it anymore.

What drives me bonkers is that these discussions happen and everyone moans and cries over how Israel isn't doing enough for peace, how the efforts of Sharon (or whoever) are not enough or is misrepresented, yet nobody mentions that the other side of the equation, the Palestinian-Arabs, have done exactly nothing to promote peace. Who is making the first step here?



This has to be the absolute sickest thing I’ve ever read. You’re the same fellow who moans over the “humiliation” Palestinian-Arabs suffer from being stopped at checkpoints, who wants to talk about ethnic slurs while people are dying, and then you turn around and say Israel will just have to “get used to” its citizens dying.

I don’t think people dying is something to “get used to.” We can and should expect civilized behavior from the Palestinian-Arabs just as we do from the Israelis. Murder is not excusable. Recognizing that there will be radicals who will sabotage peace does not excuse the Palestinian-Arabs as a whole from the responsibility of acting like a civilized society and doing their best to root out these radicals who will continue to promote terror and sabotage peace.

You had better get used to it, because, as I said, it won't be stopping for many years to come, no matter what they outcome. Of course, I could be wrong, and both sides will come to their senses and put forward what is, is the circumstances, as just a solution as can be found for both sides. Given the history, of the place, however, I can't see it happening. As soon as Sharon even hints at a withdrawel from even a few of the settlements he has been so busy helping to set up, his own party degenerates into scuffles and abuse. There are enough madmen on both sides to ensure that the only result will be a miserable one.

PS, I heard an aphorism once that I think applies in this case. The expert is the person who says it will take the longest and cost the most.