Sharon says Israel will remove settlements...

[Jocko]

And I hope both sides will retain their humanity and it doesn't come to either side trying to obliterate the other. The point in granting them anything is that Israel is morally obliged to do so.

You are a hypocrite and a liar. First you say Israel has no right to exist ("no one invited them there, so they should get used to being killed at random until they take the hint), and then you blithely claim to hope both sides keep their humanity in the dispute.

That's ironic as hell, considering you just labeled one side as animals who will attack no matter what, and the other side as sub-human since they have no right to exist. No humanity to be found in that dichotomy at all, is there?

I'd really love to know whose mailing list you're on, AUP.

If you want to see what your attitude is, try the Rev Ian Paisley. Logically, he is right, the IRA has been guilty of murder, and other crimes. In the land of reality, we all have to learn to get along.

Even the IRA was able to maintain a freakin' cease-fire when it mattered, unlike Hamas, and both parties bargained in good faith. So I fail to see what your point in this is, except as a transparently pathetic attempt to find another group of humans on this planet as reprehensible as Hamas and the other groups Arafat allows to run around "his" territory.

It will take a very long time for you to find such people, AUP. Please, don't bother on my account - I've seen what counts as "evidence" on your planet, and I'm not impressed.

 

[dsm]

This is THE -- and I can't emphasize THE enough -- dumbest thing you have ever said on this forum. In fact, you make Huzzington look smart with this statement. To give you an analogy in regards to what you just said..."There's no need for police to stop criminals, people should just get use to them. They move to the area with criminal themselves; criminals did not invite them. Over time, with some luck and goodwill the crime will stop." You see how dumb that statement you made is yet?

P.S. No I'm not equating all Palestinians to criminals, so you can STFU on that point right there.

The BIG -- and I can't emphasize BIG enough -- problem with your analogy is that you didn't provide a scorecard on who is the "police" and who is the "criminals".

 

[Grammatron]

The BIG -- and I can't emphasize BIG enough -- problem with your analogy is that you didn't provide a scorecard on who is the "police" and who is the "criminals".

The criminals are people who blow up markets and café shops. The police? Well that's the question I was hoping to ask AUP. He seems to think that somehow everything will fix itself magically.

 

[a_unique_person]

You are a hypocrite and a liar. First you say Israel has no right to exist ("no one invited them there, so they should get used to being killed at random until they take the hint), and then you blithely claim to hope both sides keep their humanity in the dispute.

How many times do I have to say this? I think the creation of modern Israel was a mistake. Ever heard of the saying "You can't go home again".

Given that it does now exist, both sides will now have to get along.

Given that they did choose to turn up there, there is a lot of resentment that has built up after 30 years at teh wrong end of a tank gun barrel. Many of those at the other end don't like being asked to subject the Palestinians to this treatment. I have said it before and I'll say it again, it will be many years before all the firing in this low level war has died down. Expect nothing less, or you will only be disappointed when it does happen.

That's ironic as hell, considering you just labeled one side as animals who will attack no matter what, and the other side as sub-human since they have no right to exist. No humanity to be found in that dichotomy at all, is there?

I'd really love to know whose mailing list you're on, AUP.

I think it is called the human condition. Man has been at war with himself for countless years. It won't end overnight. The slow achievement of a civilised global society is still being slowly achieved.



Even the IRA was able to maintain a freakin' cease-fire when it mattered, unlike Hamas, and both parties bargained in good faith. So I fail to see what your point in this is, except as a transparently pathetic attempt to find another group of humans on this planet as reprehensible as Hamas and the other groups Arafat allows to run around "his" territory.

It will take a very long time for you to find such people, AUP. Please, don't bother on my account - I've seen what counts as "evidence" on your planet, and I'm not impressed. [/QUOTE]

The IRA could do no such thing. Splinter factions on both sides of the conflict have continued hostilities when cease fires were declared. Which planet have you been living on?

 

[a_unique_person]

The criminals are people who blow up markets and café shops. The police? Well that's the question I was hoping to ask AUP. He seems to think that somehow everything will fix itself magically.

The criminals are just as much those who subject civilians to 30 years of military occupation.

 

[Jocko]

The criminals are just as much those who subject civilians to 30 years of military occupation.

Blame the UN then!

Or is this a game of "how many feet can AUP stick in his mouth at the same time"?

 

[Grammatron]

The criminals are just as much those who subject civilians to 30 years of military occupation.

Yes, you said that already in practically every post.

Now address how its ok IF Israel gives into to all that they were suppose to do under UN ruling for Hamas to blow everything up and get away with it.

 

[Jocko]

I think it is called the human condition. Man has been at war with himself for countless years. It won't end overnight. The slow achievement of a civilised global society is still being slowly achieved.

Some places more slowly than others, it would seem.

 

[The Fool]

This is THE -- and I can't emphasize THE enough -- dumbest thing you have ever said on this forum. In fact, you make Huzzington look smart with this statement. To give you an analogy in regards to what you just said..."There's no need for police to stop criminals, people should just get use to them. They move to the area with criminal themselves; criminals did not invite them. Over time, with some luck and goodwill the crime will stop." You see how dumb that statement you made is yet?

P.S. No I'm not equating all Palestinians to criminals, so you can STFU on that point right there.

Sorry to not STFU but who are you equating with criminals if not the palestinians?....I would have thought that stealing land was a crime, is it not a crime where you come from? Can I have a bit of Texas please? oooops, bad example, you already took that off the mexicans...

 

[Grammatron]

Sorry to not STFU but who are you equating with criminals if not the palestinians?....I would have thought that stealing land was a crime, is it not a crime where you come from? Can I have a bit of Texas please? oooops, bad example, you already took that off the mexicans...

HAMAS, Al-asqa brigate and other "soldiers" like that.

I know you want a confrontation here but I am afraid I won't oblige other than comment on your poor reading skills about missing the point.

You see, the topic here is if after Israel has done all it suppose to and they are still attacked AUP claims that nothing can be done about this. Do you support this?

 

[a_unique_person]

HAMAS, Al-asqa brigate and other "soldiers" like that.

I know you want a confrontation here but I am afraid I won't oblige other than comment on your poor reading skills about missing the point.

You see, the topic here is if after Israel has done all it suppose to and they are still attacked AUP claims that nothing can be done about this. Do you support this?

Let's face it, no one knows what will happen if Israel does everything it is supposed to do. I don't know why you are asking me. Either way, it cannot just stay in the West Bank.

 

[The Fool]

HAMAS, Al-asqa brigate and other "soldiers" like that.

I know you want a confrontation here but I am afraid I won't oblige other than comment on your poor reading skills about missing the point.

You see, the topic here is if after Israel has done all it suppose to and they are still attacked AUP claims that nothing can be done about this. Do you support this?

I don't think nothing can be done about it... I don't know if A_U_P thinks the same because, as usual, they are your words not his.

I agree with him that this is not going to end if and when the IDF and the settlers say "goodbye and thanks for all the target practice" I also cannot see it ending if the Palestinian terrorists stop attacking. Thats been tried before but the settlements just rolled on regardless and the terrorists went back to bombing civilians and the IDF went back to shooting terrorists and bystanders...situation normal.
Personally, I don't mind the roadmap of GWB...pity neither side is interested in it. How about the USA and the "willing" just impose the damn thing. Israel would have no choice, they would collapse without US aid, Palestinians would last even less time than Iraq...why not pull the plug on both Idiots in this brawl?

And talking about looking for confrontation....

"This is THE -- and I can't emphasize THE enough -- dumbest thing you have ever said on this forum. In fact, you make Huzzington look smart with this statement."

Was that little gem supposed to be an attempt to calm the debate...Lol. Oh well, The pot doesn't think its as black as the Kettle as usual.

 

[The Fool]

HAMAS, Al-asqa brigate and other "soldiers" like that.

Sorry...I'm still a bit confused about this...

A_U_P says
"The Palestinians didn't invite them in."
You substitute the analogy
"criminals didn't invite them in"

but you swear you are not equating Palestinians with criminals??


Actually I think the problem is you find it difficult to separate the words Palestinian and terrorist. I may be able to help here...Think of it like Israeli and Zionist extremist. You can see the clear difference there can't you? Just apply the same reasoning to both examples.

 

[Grammatron]

Let's face it, no one knows what will happen if Israel does everything it is supposed to do. I don't know why you are asking me. Either way, it cannot just stay in the West Bank.

Nice way to backpedal there, you said, "Israel, even if it gives the Palestinians everything they want, will still be subject to attacks. Get used to it." This is an implication that you know if Israel does everything it suppose to it won't make a bit of difference. Hence, I and to a bigger extend Jocko, replied asking you what is then the incentive for Israel to do that if they will still be subject to homicide bombers?

 

[Grammatron]

Sorry...I'm still a bit confused about this...

A_U_P says
"The Palestinians didn't invite them in."
You substitute the analogy
"criminals didn't invite them in"

but you swear you are not equating Palestinians with criminals??


Actually I think the problem is you find it difficult to separate the words Palestinian and terrorist. I may be able to help here...Think of it like Israeli and Zionist extremist. You can see the clear difference there can't you? Just apply the same reasoning to both examples.

I know it's hard to believe, but I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Somebody can be a Palestinian AND a terrorist at the same time somebody can be a Palestinian AND NOT a terrorist. It's shocking, and it might take you some time to figure out, but I will be here to help you comprehend this "difficult" concept.

 

[Grammatron]

I don't think nothing can be done about it... I don't know if A_U_P thinks the same because, as usual, they are your words not his.

I agree with him that this is not going to end if and when the IDF and the settlers say "goodbye and thanks for all the target practice" I also cannot see it ending if the Palestinian terrorists stop attacking. Thats been tried before but the settlements just rolled on regardless and the terrorists went back to bombing civilians and the IDF went back to shooting terrorists and bystanders...situation normal.
Personally, I don't mind the roadmap of GWB...pity neither side is interested in it. How about the USA and the "willing" just impose the damn thing. Israel would have no choice, they would collapse without US aid, Palestinians would last even less time than Iraq...why not pull the plug on both Idiots in this brawl?

This is, quite frankly, stupid. You are, just like your buddy AUP, saying that terrorist groups in Palestine can attack Israel and kill all the civilians they want and get away with it even after Israel does all it is suppose to do under UN resolution, however, Israel can't attack those terrorist in Palestine because some innocent bystandards might get hurt, sheer lunacy.

 

[Jocko]

This is, quite frankly, stupid. You are, just like your buddy AUP, saying that terrorist groups in Palestine can attack Israel and kill all the civilians they want and get away with it even after Israel does all it is suppose to do under UN resolution, however, Israel can't attack those terrorist in Palestine because some innocent bystandards might get hurt, sheer lunacy.

The funniest thing of all is the way AUP and Fool equate Israel to an aggressor nation that just dropped out of the sky and invaded Palestine. "Wouldn't YOU fight against oppressive occupiers of YOUR land?!" they cry.

I've explained this to them before, as have many others, but that isn't how it happened. It was conceptualized by the League of Nations and enacted by the United Nations, the same body they think is the best route to dealing with everything from foreign policy to sovereignty to a case of the crabs. I've even posted the freakin' declarations on this forum to clarify.

And yet, they still act as if the Israelis just appeared over a hill one day and decided to make camp. Utterly obtuse thinking. And if they think it's unprecedented and can't work, I would invite them to investigate the creation of Liberia (hint: it has something to do with the capital's name).

The UN offered the Palestinians a deal and they didn't take it. So they wound up with nothing, making their leadership stupid as well as barbaric. The stupidest thing of all is their decendants are going to get themselves wiped out by this conduct - so how about a little discussion about that? Given the realities - yes, REALITIES - of today, is it in the best interests of the Palestinians to continue allowing attacks on civilians?

 

[The Fool]

I know it's hard to believe, but I'm going to let you in on a little secret. Somebody can be a Palestinian AND a terrorist at the same time somebody can be a Palestinian AND NOT a terrorist. It's shocking, and it might take you some time to figure out, but I will be here to help you comprehend this "difficult" concept.

Thats better Grammatron, you are now on the road to recovery.

 

[The Fool]

The funniest thing of all is the way AUP and Fool equate Israel to an aggressor nation that just dropped out of the sky and invaded Palestine. "Wouldn't YOU fight against oppressive occupiers of YOUR land?!" they cry.

I've explained this to them before, as have many others, but that isn't how it happened. It was conceptualized by the League of Nations and enacted by the United Nations, the same body they think is the best route to dealing with everything from foreign policy to sovereignty to a case of the crabs. I've even posted the freakin' declarations on this forum to clarify.


"His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country."

Please explain what happened to the civil rights of the existing non jewish communities? When you are run off your land by a foreign army it matters little what bits of paper they are waving.



And yet, they still act as if the Israelis just appeared over a hill one day and decided to make camp.

well My old Uncle must have imagined the Zionist terrorist bomb that filled his arse with bits of metal. He was in the british army attempting to control terrorism in Palestine, In the early days, before the terrorists were supplied with tanks and Jets and therefore able to shed the terrorist name and become the IDF.



Utterly obtuse thinking. And if they think it's unprecedented and can't work, I would invite them to investigate the creation of Liberia (hint: it has something to do with the capital's name).

Lol...you are siting Liberia as a model for the middle east?


The UN offered the Palestinians a deal and they didn't take it.

The deal being the splitting of palestinian land into small unworkable chunks separated by Israeli barbed wire, of course they couldn't have the land with water, thats under the settlements....what a deal.

So they wound up with nothing

Thats ok, they are getting used to it


Making their leadership stupid as well as barbaric. The stupidest thing of all is their decendants are going to get themselves wiped out by this conduct - so how about a little discussion about that?

Fine, I'd like to kick off the discussion by suggesting that this statement if a pretty good description of both the Palestinian terrorist extreme and Sharon.


Given the realities - yes, REALITIES - of today, is it in the best interests of the Palestinians to continue allowing attacks on civilians?

Absolutely correct. You are preaching to the converted. I think killing civilians is criminal, do you also think this? or do you only think this if the killers are Arabs? Is it also in the best interests of Israel to set up a new apartheid state based on racist legislation?

 

[The Fool]

This is, quite frankly, stupid. You are, just like your buddy AUP, saying that terrorist groups in Palestine can attack Israel and kill all the civilians they want and get away with it even after Israel does all it is suppose to do under UN resolution, however, Israel can't attack those terrorist in Palestine because some innocent bystandards might get hurt, sheer lunacy.

I was tossing up if this is a strawman or a lie. As you are not stupid and can read I conclude its a lie. I agree that this statement is sheer lunacy. I suppose you can show where I have said that?
You seem to enjoy making things up as you go along, I would encourage you to check what I actually post before you invent my opinions.
I'll help you out...here is the statement you are currently misrepresenting.

"I also cannot see it ending if the Palestinian terrorists stop attacking. Thats been tried before but the settlements just rolled on regardless and the terrorists went back to bombing civilians and the IDF went back to shooting terrorists and bystanders...situation normal."

please show me where I said that palestinian terrorist groups can attack israel and kill all the civilians they want. That is a clear statement that I offer concent and support to that activity...That is a lie and typical of you.