Shameful Bigotry Amendment Passes In Florida

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Sure. What's your point? That the law is distasteful? Never said otherwise.

No point; just wanted to gauge your position on the issue.

 

[LarianLeQuella]

Prohibition springs to mind. Not saying it's a good precedent, mind you, but this definitely isn't the first precedent.

hehe and we saw how that turned out. Sorta my point in an obtuse manner.

 

[Ausmerican]

The State should not define marriage. People get married by churches, not by bureaucrats.

Actually I don't think that is true. No-one really gets married by a church.

They may get a ceremony performed by a church but I think the marriage, as in the contract between the two people, is a state thing regardless.

It doesn't matter if you were married by an archbishop in a cathedral if you want to end that marriage you don't go back to the church for a divorce do you? No, you go to a lawyer and a court.

So it seems that you CAN get married in church. You can also get married not in church, by a state registered celebrant or whatever. But to end the marriage you CAN'T get divorced in church.

So apart from the ceremony what did the church actually supply? Given that perhaps the church needs to come up with a new name for it and leave marriage to the state.

 

[skepticalbeliever]

I think it is a shame that there is so much resentment for the will of the American people. Why should judges re-write the definition of mirage? What would happen if in Utah, judges found a right to polygamy mirages? Allowing gay mirage discriminates against other alternative lifestyles. It’s natural for a person to want to be married to 2 other people. Why not allow that? I don’t think gays are more important than polygamists.

Having leftist judges who don’t care about babies being killed in late term abortion, define what constitutes a mirage is appalling. There have been plenty of bad decisions made by judges in the past few years. I could list them but I don’t have the time. The ones I’m referring to judges giving child rapists lenient sentences. Judges are not infallible!

I find it ironic that the Hollywood crowd thought it would be a good idea to throw their weight behind defeating prop 8. These people can’t stay married for over a year. Perhaps noonprop 8 wasn’t marketed very well. It is too bad that John McCain didn’t have to courage to get behind any of these efforts. It seems like these amendments received more support than he did. The GOP should put up a real conservative next election.

But I do think there should be measures to protect gays from descrimination in the work place. Nobody should be refused housing or a job or be treated in a nasty way because they're gay. I have gay friends. And I'm open to allowing gays adopt children who couldn't find a home with out a gay couple adopting them. I just don't think they should be given mirrage rights.

 

[WildCat]

mirage...mirages...mirage...mirrage

What's a "gay mirage"?

 

[boloboffin]

What's a "gay mirage"?

I think that's a straight guy who doesn't mind being thought of as gay.

 

[Dragoonster]

I think it is a shame that there is so much resentment for the will of the American people. Why should judges re-write the definition of mirage? What would happen if in Utah, judges found a right to polygamy mirages? Allowing gay mirage discriminates against other alternative lifestyles. It’s natural for a person to want to be married to 2 other people. Why not allow that? I don’t think gays are more important than polygamists.

I'm fully in favor of polygamy, and anyone marrying anyone (who can give able consent) they want to. There's no false dichotomy. Nor are most judges rewriting anything--it's the people who are attempting to rewrite state Constitutions, at the moment. The judges are deciding if what the people are rewriting is allowable.

The issue at hand isn't one of choice though, it's one of discrimination, and whether gays or same-sex partners are a protected status. If they are, it doesn't matter if there are 299,999,998 heteros clamoring for the sanctity of marriage and 2 gays, they should be allowed to marry and face zero other discrimination that isn't of great damage to society.

 

[Foolmewunz]

I think it is a shame that there is so much resentment for the will of the American people. Why should judges re-write the definition of mirage? What would happen if in Utah, judges found a right to polygamy mirages? Allowing gay mirage discriminates against other alternative lifestyles. It’s natural for a person to want to be married to 2 other people. Why not allow that? I don’t think gays are more important than polygamists.

Having leftist judges who don’t care about babies being killed in late term abortion, define what constitutes a mirage is appalling. There have been plenty of bad decisions made by judges in the past few years. I could list them but I don’t have the time. The ones I’m referring to judges giving child rapists lenient sentences. Judges are not infallible!

I find it ironic that the Hollywood crowd thought it would be a good idea to throw their weight behind defeating prop 8. These people can’t stay married for over a year. Perhaps noonprop 8 wasn’t marketed very well. It is too bad that John McCain didn’t have to courage to get behind any of these efforts. It seems like these amendments received more support than he did. The GOP should put up a real conservative next election.

But I do think there should be measures to protect gays from descrimination in the work place. Nobody should be refused housing or a job or be treated in a nasty way because they're gay. I have gay friends. And I'm open to allowing gays adopt children who couldn't find a home with out a gay couple adopting them. I just don't think they should be given mirrage rights.

Wow, we're just all over the neanderthal emotional map, aren't we? Why is it that all traditional diatribes like this either start or end with, "Now don't get me wrong. Some of my best friends are ......"

How is it you can support allowing gay couples to adopt children, but then condemn that child to live with the ignominy of being called a "bastard" for the rest of its life. What's so holy (in its non-religious sense) about marriage that it should be left to "one man and one woman"* as it states in the Florida ballot inititative? Why not two of one or the other? (Or multiples of either, for that matter.)

*They didn't specify which one man or one woman. The wording from the OP sounded to me as though they were going to name them further down on the question.

 

[Ziggurat]

It is too bad that John McCain didn’t have to courage to get behind any of these efforts. It seems like these amendments received more support than he did.

Yes, they did. But Obama is opposed to gay marriage too, so it wouldn't have helped McCain.

 

[Ziggurat]

How is it you can support allowing gay couples to adopt children, but then condemn that child to live with the ignominy of being called a "bastard" for the rest of its life.

What's wrong with that? I get called a bastard all the time, and my parents are married (to each other, too!).

 

[Foolmewunz]

What's wrong with that? I get called a bastard all the time, and my parents are married (to each other, too!).

Thread's dead for over 12 hours, so I don't mind derailing.....

Actually, I'm literally "a bastard". My mom and dad weren't married, formally, and it doesn't bother me, either. But it's real fun in arguments with PC people when they mistakenly use the term in its popular usage... I look all upset and barely manage to stutter out, "That's pretty sh***y, you know. I really am one." I can usually hold myself together for about ten truly tense seconds before I guffaw at the perplexed look on their face.

Interestingly, though... even making fun of the term.... I went down to register my son's birth (Marcello Master of the Universe as he insists we call him), and the forms here in Hong Kong state "if child is illegitimate... blah blah blah"...

Funny old world, ain't it? I was astonished to find that I was offended, even with my own personal history and never taking offense by the term bastard... but don't dare use "illegitimate" to describe my son. I actually wrote a letter to the government.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'd suggest that the UN has slightly more authority than some radom bloke of the street, no?

That is silly then. The random bloke on the street can vote, the UN is specificity designed to have no real power.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think it is a shame that there is so much resentment for the will of the American people. Why should judges re-write the definition of mirage?

marriage has been written by judges. See the horrible case of Loving V Virginia. Virginia defined marriage as between two people of the same race. But the activist judges decided that this was unconstitutional due to the right to marriage.

What would happen if in Utah, judges found a right to polygamy mirages?

This would be pretty hard, because so many of the laws on the books don't work for marriage between multiple people. To do this the court would have to find that they have the right, and order the legislature to rewrite all laws that recognize marriage.

A different way to solve this would be reintroduce a much more classic view of marriage, not as the joining of two people, but of the transfer of ownership of a woman from her father to her husband. This would get rid of any gay marriage ideas as well.

But as the law does not distinguish between men and women in marriage at any point other than when they actually get married there is no need to change the thousands of laws and regulations that define what the status of being married really means.

Allowing gay mirage discriminates against other alternative lifestyles. It’s natural for a person to want to be married to 2 other people. Why not allow that? I don’t think gays are more important than polygamists.

They are more numerous, at least for any particular form of polygamy. Gays want the marriage that currently exists, for a polymarriage to exist you would need to decide which of the competing models of multiple marriage should be the legal one, and rewrite so much of the legal codes that define what marriage does.

It would also raise the issue of same sex marriage, because are the wives of a man married to each other or not.

Having leftist judges who don’t care about babies being killed in late term abortion, define what constitutes a mirage is appalling.

True god hated those mothers enough to punish them with medical complications and so they deserve to die because of them. We have far to low a maternal mortality rate. If a woman needs an abortion or she will stroke out and die, let her stroke out.

But I do think there should be measures to protect gays from descrimination in the work place. Nobody should be refused housing or a job or be treated in a nasty way because they're gay. I have gay friends. And I'm open to allowing gays adopt children who couldn't find a home with out a gay couple adopting them. I just don't think they should be given mirrage rights.

Just so they know that their relationship will never have the status in the eyes of say the state department as that of owning a dog.