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There's a myth about hunting being peddled - the less effort he puts in, the lower his stature.

If you are fishing, hunting, plant gathering, logging, etc. for your livelihood then the sign of knowing what you're doing is efficiency. Maximum product for minimum effort.

Of course, the same would be true for any animal as well, including (theoretically) bigfoot. When you watch finding bigfoot or read the BF message boards, everyone seems to agree that BF are predators and (in the east) rely on and eat lots of whitetail deer.

The problem with that is, whitetail deer are an edge species. Their population densities are highest near fields and roads, in open areas where plenty food they like is available. So when bigfoot is said to exist in only the deepest, darkest, most remote woods, away from people and roads and fields where hunters can walk from their trucks right up to their deer stands, it demonstrates not only a made-up story, but also a fundamental lack of understanding of the most basic concepts of ecology.
 
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Bigfoot will venture to the forest edges very cautiously. It may use infrasound to herd deer or cause them to become confused.
 
I don't think anyone has all Bigfoot behaviors nailed down yet. Although there are some similarities with great apes as pointed out in Steve's book. Good info IMO and others that tend to view these beings as a biological living creatures and nothing more.

How does one come to this conclusion? Investigation and research, how else?

You asked how do you know what's ridiculous or not? Well that's left up to the individual based on their own personal research and findings. That's why people do research, to learn. Personally I don't think one will get very far by trying to explain one mystery with another. Someone would have to be extremely gullible to accept every reported behavior as fact.

The flaw in your statement is assuming every reported behavior is attributable to Bigfoot. It's not. Common sense would be the first method to use for a new researcher. It leads to some fun at times. Smoking Bigfoot? See, that's funny. But not because a primate could not smoke, of course they can and usually with much enjoyment, I've seen chimps smoke and if prompted, I'd supply a lit cigarette for them at times. (yes I know this was wrong and I most often supplied them with a hard candy, granola or fruit treat) But the common sense thing to ask is where would Bigfoot get a pack of smokes and a lighter? lol Ridiculous. So some conclusions can be reached with common sense.

I'm not gonna get into a "show me the monkey" debate. I'm merely commenting on the flaws present in your conclusion.



If you wish to include rivers as roads, well then certainly I feel you'd have a much better chance at viewing one from a boat than a car. IMO



Everything is worthless without scientific proof. A body or a bone is what it will take. Chris B.

So, all alleged bigfoot evidence is worthless? Do you share that opinion with other footers?
 
Long ago I might have, but now I'm a "knower"...I know Footie doesn't exist - not in South Central Kentucky, not in South Central Oklahoma or South Central L.A.

I'll wager that if Cervelo goes hiking with you, Footie won't be around...dang the bad luck!

We can talk about seeing cryptids, but in the case of bigfoot - it has evolved into a big game. I'm glad you believe bigfoot is a biological entity rather than cigarette smoking super being, but if you take that though to a logical conclusion, you would understand why a 12' tall biological entity would have already been found in North America. BTW thanks for reminding me about the NDA - no BLAARGer is complete without an NDA.

Here lies the problem. You state that you "know" footie doesn't exist. Is it because they've not been proven to science with a type specimen? If that's the reasoning, then the snub nosed monkey didn't exist either, until they found it. Or giant squids? I suppose they didn't exist either.

That's the thing, your statement claims to know the unknowable.



If you think blowing off my questions with trite replies helps your credibility, then keep on doing it.



Really?

Really?

Besides, I didn't say a word about debating any pics...?
I only asked to see more pics, and I asked how wide the road was...

Skeptics aren't the only ones reading your posts...

http://www.bfrpky.com/FAQ.html



Care to elaborate, Chris?

You got within 15 feet of one with a camera...

You apparently remained within 51 feet of a 12 foot tall one for a while, with a camera...

A skeptic forum is not the place for a discussion of secondary evidence that nobody here can possibly accept. That type of discussion here can only result in a pile on of personal insults and ridicule. So, I'm not open to a discussion of my sighting or my research methods here.

Please excuse me if some of my posts seem short in response. Honestly, there's no way I could relay to anyone an education on foot structure in a single post. You also asked about Patty prints and another print , I do not speculate on evidence gathered by others. Simply because I don't know if their evidence is real or faked. I can only comment on evidence I know to be factual.

I can recommend Dr Meldrum's book that discusses proposed Sasquatch foot structure. But I don't agree with all his findings as they relate to what I've seen. It is a pretty good discussion of what differences would be required to support their weight and motion and what is seen/proposed on his study of casts. The best study would be to do your own though IMO, instead of taking someone's word for it from a book.

You're making claims on a skeptic's forum, of course people are going to ask for evidence. It's almost as if you're playing some sort of game here.

Hmmm.

Not making any claims, just pointing out flawed arguments for dismissal.

If you keep saying there's a monkey, some people will, rightfully say, "show us the monkey." If you don't want to show people the monkey, don't tell them there's a monkey.
Only thing I keep saying is that it's not impossible for an unknown primate to exist.

http://www.bfrpky.com/GEAR.html

I notice the gear page lists a game cam.

Also, coincidentally, a 12MP Cobra HD camera. But it doesn't record video at 12MP. Judging by the reviews, you would be lucky to recognize a friend in a video taken with it, let alone bigfoot.

The game cam is Brandon's.

I use a Sony 1080 HD cam now. It's much better video quality.

Scott's Cobra cam records video at 720 HD. Video quality depends on lighting a good deal with this one. The Sony is my first choice to take with me. That page hasn't been updated since 2010.
 
So, all alleged bigfoot evidence is worthless? Do you share that opinion with other footers?

Forgetting something? Only a body or part/bone etc, can be used to determine scientific existence of a biological creature. Without a type specimen you have nothing to prove existence.

I think most other footers already know this.

Oh, there's alot of secondary evidence that can be taken for investigation of a sighting sure. You can make casts of tracks, take photos, videos, follow trackways until they lose you etc. All of that evidence to determine a sighting happening or not is great. But none of it will ever prove the existence of Bigfoot to science. Only a type specimen will fill that void. Chris B.
 
Pics are wonderful, I like to view wildlife pics too, but how do we know something hasn't been photoshopped?

"The provenance is confirmed, the photos are freely available for independent analysis, etc."

Yes I saw that post and responded. I'm not aware of any insults made to wildlife professionals if any are lurking here.

Hello? Is this thing on?
 
If that's the reasoning, then the snub nosed monkey didn't exist either, until they found it.
So you're going to continue to compare rural Kentucky to one of the most remote valleys on the planet in a country notoriously cut off from the outside world? I find this highly . . . disingenuous of you.


Or giant squids? I suppose they didn't exist either.
Ignorance or obfuscation? Chris, did you know that giant squid were very likely first described by Aristotle? (The official description is mid-19th Century, so bigfoot is lagging, you know, about 150 years behind - at least.)
 
but also a fundamental lack of understanding of the most basic concepts of ecology.

That's what I mean by the iron law of opposites in 'footery. "Research", for example, means to do systematic study in order to acquire new knowledge.

But what 'footers are doing is the antonym of research: to actually ignore everything known about the so-called "study area" and concoct some fantasy story about what you are seeing.
 
That's what I mean by the iron law of opposites in 'footery. "Research", for example, means to do systematic study in order to acquire new knowledge.

But what 'footers are doing is the antonym of research: to actually ignore everything known about the so-called "study area" and concoct some fantasy story about what you are seeing.


This, very much so. After many years of interest in this subject I've found it to be filled with liars, cons and thieves. You'd have to be to support something so disingenuous. If you were to take an honest look at the phenomenon, it looks like one of these three things, and only those three things.

Bigfoot = hoaxes/lies/stories along with delusion, and very occasionally mistaken identity. (sometimes with fleeting glimpse sightings) The fact that every resolved bigfoot claim fits into one of these three categories explains the phenomenon quite well.

That IS what bigfoot is. In fact it's been proven many times over. There is your bigfoot. Lies/hoaxes/stories, deluded people and very occasional mistaken identity. = PROVEN

You have folks like ChrisBFRPKY who insist their bigfoot is not one of these three things. Very simply, ChrisBFRPKY's stories are the backbone of bigfoot right now. Everyone involved knows there won't be a body produced. It's not about that. It's about posing and lying better. That real science is too much real work. It is much easier to make up lies.

It is hilarious to me the way these footers put themselves on a pedestal because they're "knowers" now. It reminds me 100% of religions.

No we cannot produce bigfoot/god. No you can't see him! YOU MUST HAVE FAITH!!! And then the disappointments start...

lol
 
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"The provenance is confirmed, the photos are freely available for independent analysis, etc."



Hello? Is this thing on?

As I said, I like wildlife photos. But, pics or video cannot provide proof of existence for an unknown. A type specimen is the only way. "Some claim DNA will do it." But it won't. What would science compare it to?

So you're going to continue to compare rural Kentucky to one of the most remote valleys on the planet in a country notoriously cut off from the outside world? I find this highly . . . disingenuous of you.



Ignorance or obfuscation? Chris, did you know that giant squid were very likely first described by Aristotle? (The official description is mid-19th Century, so bigfoot is lagging, you know, about 150 years behind - at least.)

I merely point out that animals are not accepted by science to exist until a type specimen has been collected. Anything else you may infer but please stick to what I actually say. I make no comparison of KY with any type of remote or secret place. Ridiculous. We do have a few oddities that have been discovered though. Some bacteria found nowhere else on Earth to date.

"Ignorance or obfuscation?" Neither.

It won't turn the tables either way but if you want to discuss other scientific discoveries, ok, we can do that.
Historical reports of unknown creatures are considered myth until science has a type specimen. I found an interesting article that demonstrates the historical accounts of the Gorilla here:
http://listverse.com/2010/04/16/10-beasts-that-used-to-be-mythical/

"It is believed that the first gorilla report comes from Greek explorer Hanno, from the 5th century BC. Hanno traveled to the western coasts of Africa, possibly to Sierra Leona or even the gulf of Guinea, and reported “an island filled with savage people, most of them women, and covered on hair. Our interpreters call them gorillae”.Maybe we should mention that not everyone is convinced about Hanno having encountered actual gorillas (his gorillae could have been chimpanzees). Much later, in 1625, British explorer Andrew Batell reported seeing a “monster” covered on hair except for the face and hands, which slept in trees and fed on fruit. According to him, this “monster” was most similar to a man, but “with the stature of a giant”. Gorillas remained obscure and poorly understood for many more years, being often thought of as brutish, unintelligent and extremely violent. It wasn’t until 1847 that a westerner (physician Thomas Savage) managed to obtain several gorilla bones, including a skull, while in Liberia, and published the very first formal description of the great ape. The next decade, explorer Paul du Chaillu became the first modern European to see a live gorilla during his expeditions to equatorial Africa. As for the mountain gorilla, a different, larger species, it was believed to be a myth until 1902!"

So how long does it take for science to catch on? 2000 years? Yikes. I'll wager the gorilla actually existed long before science accepted it. The fact that it was witnessed by others seemed not to matter for 2000 years? Isn't that something. Has nothing to do with Bigfoot but 2000 years for science to catch on.......
Chris B.
 
Honestly, there's no way I could relay to anyone an education on foot structure in a single post. You also asked about Patty prints and another print , I do not speculate on evidence gathered by others. Simply because I don't know if their evidence is real or faked. I can only comment on evidence I know to be factual.

I can recommend Dr Meldrum's book that discusses proposed Sasquatch foot structure.



The game cam is Brandon's.

You probably can't discuss foot structure at all, imo. You likely know nothing at all about the subject. You certainly have no idea about the mythical bigfoot foot structure.

I certainly wouldn't listen to you regarding foot structure.

You can recommend Meldrum's book if you want to get laughed out of the room. It's not like he hasn't been discussed a hundred times.

Is a game cam useless or not? Your FAQ says it doesn't work, yet one is listed as gear carried. Which is it?

And why won't a game cam work on bigfoot?
Brandon doesn't make that claim, your page does.
 
Science would be able to place any primate DNA in the correct relationship to known primates. Even "unknown" primate DNA. Sasquatch DNA would end all questions about existence.

Saying that DNA is useless is silly.
 
Of course absolute proof is one thing, but evidence is another. I find it hard to accept the excuse that a good clear photograph would not be worthwhile from someone who seems unable to get one. It's straight out of Aesop.
 
Chris, you're making comments apparently far outside the realm of your expertise.

Again, western lowland gorilla was discovered without anyone looking for it. The story is almost as serendipitous for the discovery of mountain gorilla, in which individuals were collected during the first European exploration of the Virungas.

You can't trump up some kind of scientific establishment pooh-poohing reports of gorillas from an ancient Greek explorer and put in on the same level as modern skepticism of bigfoot. For one, the standardized science of formally describing species did not even exist until the 18th Century.

Some people did not believe Hanno or Bartell? So what? Not everyone believed in mermaids or unicorns back then either, but a heck of a lot of people did. The standards by which people determined what was real in the natural world and what was not did exist until later. Once those standards existed, however, mysterious creatures were discovered again and again once people with the requisite know-how simply went to the places where those creatures lived.

With respect to bigfoot, that same process (going to where they are reported to live) has failed to produce a single scrap of such things again and again and again. This is why the fact that you claim to have these creatures in rural Kentucky is relevant. Bigfoots living there would be completely UNlike the discovery of gorillas, chimps, giant squid, okapi, saola, snub-nosed monkey - you name it - because Kentucky has already been explored, exploited, settled, hunted out, cut-over, and re-grown.
 
http://www.bfrpky.com/GEAR.html

I notice the gear page lists a game cam.

Also, coincidentally, a 12MP Cobra HD camera. But it doesn't record video at 12MP. Judging by the reviews, you would be lucky to recognize a friend in a video taken with it, let alone bigfoot.

I think NCIS New Orleans had it right. "Look, it's Bigfoot! Let's grab the worst camera money can buy!"

And that is one of the many, many problems with seeing cryptids.
 
All those other recently discovered critters basically fall into three specific categories:

1. Lives near similar species, so it's hard to distinguish. Members of this class are usually well-known to the locals, and evidence of their existence is all over the place once anyone else looks. They are, as it were, hiding in plain sight.

2. Lives in the deep sea.

3. Is microscopic.

Bigfoot doesn't begin to fit into any of those categories. There are no similar primates in N.A for them to be hiding among. And the evidence isn't all over the place as soon as you look with a scientific eye. It just isn't even a faintly comparable case.

Giant Squid, by the way, have been know to exist for long time. Nobody had spotted a live one until a decade or so ago, but many dead ones had been found. The oldest holotype is from 1853. Footie, by contrast, never ever leaves a corpse. :)
 
I took this photo of bigfoot in Ybor Florida. He is hard to see, hiding in the bunker behind the rabbits. You can see bigfoots cock in the photo also. Definitely a male.
 
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