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ChrisBFRPKY said:
I think you think I'm here to prove Bigfoot exists for you, I'm not.
Oh, I know you can't prove bigfoot exists. What you fail to understand is that I'm telling you what your side needs to do in order to convince us. I'm handing you the playbook to win the game.

I don't have any viable evidence.
Than you have no basis for any rational belief.

To make a long story short, your opinion has been noted...
I have provided no opinions. I have stated what is necessary to establish what bigfoot believers wish to establish, along with several criticisms of your logic, evidence, and refutations, and one conclusion (along with a brief discussion of some of the evidence supporting it). To call that an "opinion" is a misnomer; it is at worst a professional opinion. Meaning that unlike you, I DO have the knowledge, background, and field experience to draw rigorous conclusions on this topic.

pics are not viable evidence of an undiscovered species, we'd need a body or part on file for that as you well know,
Nonsense, and this proves you haven't read what I wrote. A picture could prove the existence of a new species. Pictures ARE scientific evidence. We don't put type specimens in journals, we put pictures of them in journals. But you have failed to rise to the level of providing photographic evidence.

I'm not one for name calling or mud tossing,
If you think that was name calling or mud tossing, never even walk into a serious academic conference. What I did was actually very polite, all things considered (including the fact that your argument necessarily declares every biologist in North American for 200+ years to be grossly and negligently incompentent if not frauds, among other things). Again, I'm merely providing you with what it would take to convince me you're right. There are standards in science. You do not meet them.

d finally since you base your opinion that Giganto could not have migrated to North America as the other mammals and hominids did based on the lack of fossil evidence, I would say that is an opinion based on current available evidence and to be continued.
See, unlike you, I actually have examined the fossil evidence. There are four different places we would necessarily have to find Giganto specimens if they existed in North America, given how organisms invade NA from Asia. We find them in none. Plus, I'm actively engaged in looking for fossils from that time period--I just got off a job where I was digging up ~5 ma fossils, for example. I know what the fossil record looks like for this time period, in part because I'm helping discover it, and therefore can assure you that "We haven't found it...YET!!" is nothing more htan a transparently manipulative attempt to misrepresent the fossil record.

I've never seen a dragon or dragon tracks, except the kind in Komodo, I've never seen a unicorn or tracks made by one.
If you knew the etimology of those two words, you'd know that's actually not true.

But, I have seen a large hairy primate, its tracks etc and taken plenty of eye witness reports of them.
What allowed you to identify it as a primate? Why do you consider the eye witness reports reliable? How do you rule out being mistaken? This is no personal attack. I once saw a 30 foot tall glass spider walk over a car in Texas, and I know a guy who saw a gopher in a WWII style military helmet and rocket launcher. Neither of us believes these things to have existed, however.

I'm content knowing they exist, your opinion of that matters very little to me.
Personally, I'd love for them to exist. They would be a facinating thing to study, and the migration of Giganto across NA would yeild vast amounts of information about other invasions. That's why I bothered giving you the data I did--so you can prove me wrong (well, that and to show exactly how you fail, debunking the falsehoods you present about how this process works). I WANT you to be right. It's just that the evidence is so crapy that I cannot believe you are and maintain my intellectual honesty.
 
That was paraphrased from posts made here and also Dr Eugenie Scott's Bigfoot presentation.
If by paraphrase you mean make **** up.

I will agree to assume everything has already been discovered seems dishonest and unlikely.
No one is saying that, but you know that.

I think you think I'm here to prove Bigfoot exists for you, I'm not. I don't have any viable evidence. But, the moment I get a body or part you're more than welcome to examine it.

To make a long story short, your opinion has been noted, pics are not viable evidence of an undiscovered species, we'd need a body or part on file for that as you well know, I don't claim to be the best researcher in the business no need for a lecture about what I need to do or how incompetent you believe me to be, I'm not one for name calling or mud tossing, and finally since you base your opinion that Giganto could not have migrated to North America as the other mammals and hominids did based on the lack of fossil evidence, I would say that is an opinion based on current available evidence and to be continued. Keep on believing everything you believe.

I've never seen a dragon or dragon tracks, except the kind in Komodo, I've never seen a unicorn or tracks made by one. I've never heard any reports of them in this area either. But, I have seen a large hairy primate, its tracks etc and taken plenty of eye witness reports of them. So while I may not spend time searching for dragons or unicorns, I'll keep at it on Bigfoot whether science or anyone else thinks they exist or not. I'm content knowing they exist, your opinion of that matters very little to me. Chris B.

See you in the funny papers Chris B. I swear I'll give $1,000 to the wildlife conservation group of your choice should you bring in a footie body. But given the quality of the evidence you've provided so far, I'm certain I won't be cutting that check.
 
I silently pointed my rifle at my chosen target, an young male.
Then I carefully placed the crosshairs right between its eyes, took a deep breath and prepared to press the trigger...

That was when I saw those eyes. Almost human, the sasquatch was no longer an "it", but now a "he"! I could no longer take the shot. Breathing heavilly I quickly lowered my rifle and closed my eyes for a second, shaking my head while I tried to recover from the shock. What I was about to do was a murder. I always became a murder...

When I opened my eyes again, they were gone. The whole family group.

It was better that way.
 
I silently pointed my rifle at my chosen target, an young male.
Then I carefully placed the crosshairs right between its eyes, took a deep breath and prepared to press the trigger...

That was when I saw those eyes. Almost human, the sasquatch was no longer an "it", but now a "he"! I could no longer take the shot. Breathing heavilly I quickly lowered my rifle and closed my eyes for a second, shaking my head while I tried to recover from the shock. What I was about to do was a murder. I always became a murder...

When I opened my eyes again, they were gone. The whole family group.

It was better that way.

The Make Up a Bigfoot Story is in Forum Community. Probably where all this footie junk belongs.
 
Oh, I know you can't prove bigfoot exists. What you fail to understand is that I'm telling you what your side needs to do in order to convince us. I'm handing you the playbook to win the game.

Than you have no basis for any rational belief.

I have provided no opinions. I have stated what is necessary to establish what bigfoot believers wish to establish, along with several criticisms of your logic, evidence, and refutations, and one conclusion (along with a brief discussion of some of the evidence supporting it). To call that an "opinion" is a misnomer; it is at worst a professional opinion. Meaning that unlike you, I DO have the knowledge, background, and field experience to draw rigorous conclusions on this topic.

Nonsense, and this proves you haven't read what I wrote. A picture could prove the existence of a new species. Pictures ARE scientific evidence. We don't put type specimens in journals, we put pictures of them in journals. But you have failed to rise to the level of providing photographic evidence.

If you think that was name calling or mud tossing, never even walk into a serious academic conference. What I did was actually very polite, all things considered (including the fact that your argument necessarily declares every biologist in North American for 200+ years to be grossly and negligently incompentent if not frauds, among other things). Again, I'm merely providing you with what it would take to convince me you're right. There are standards in science. You do not meet them.

See, unlike you, I actually have examined the fossil evidence. There are four different places we would necessarily have to find Giganto specimens if they existed in North America, given how organisms invade NA from Asia. We find them in none. Plus, I'm actively engaged in looking for fossils from that time period--I just got off a job where I was digging up ~5 ma fossils, for example. I know what the fossil record looks like for this time period, in part because I'm helping discover it, and therefore can assure you that "We haven't found it...YET!!" is nothing more htan a transparently manipulative attempt to misrepresent the fossil record.

If you knew the etimology of those two words, you'd know that's actually not true.

What allowed you to identify it as a primate? Why do you consider the eye witness reports reliable? How do you rule out being mistaken? This is no personal attack. I once saw a 30 foot tall glass spider walk over a car in Texas, and I know a guy who saw a gopher in a WWII style military helmet and rocket launcher. Neither of us believes these things to have existed, however.

Personally, I'd love for them to exist. They would be a facinating thing to study, and the migration of Giganto across NA would yeild vast amounts of information about other invasions. That's why I bothered giving you the data I did--so you can prove me wrong (well, that and to show exactly how you fail, debunking the falsehoods you present about how this process works). I WANT you to be right. It's just that the evidence is so crapy that I cannot believe you are and maintain my intellectual honesty.

Thank you for your advice. I mean that. I think your judgement is a little premature though as I've not presented anything viable as of yet to defend. What work I have done is not for sharing or discussion on a forum. And I'm not here to talk you into Bigfoot's existence. If everyone here has the belief that it is impossible for these creatures to exist that's fine with me.

I did and do read every post before I reply. You presuppose much about me. What I've read , what I've studied etc. I'm content to leave you with your presuppositions as I have no intent of revealing my findings or theories prematurely. First I need a body or part, after that what info I have will be available.

As I said before, River saw fit to post links from my site and pics here for yet another pile on. So I am happy to entertain discussion of them. If your addition to the discussion is to let me know the pics and videos are of no value, I agree and I already know this and did not present them here as viable evidence of Bigfoot. When comments were made like "It's not Bigfoot" I simply asked then what is it? If the video doesn't show primates doing primate things, then what does it show?

Pics as scientific evidence of a cryptid? Right. You want a good clear pic? How about the Patterson Gimlin film? Oh, but that's a hoax right? You see, pictures do NOT mean anything to science until and unless there is a type specimen on file. What better example is there?

I can see making pics of your grid on a site you're working to use with your presentation later. And that's about the only situation pics would work for Bigfoot as well. (In that case we'd be getting some bones to go with them)

If by paraphrase you mean make **** up.


No one is saying that, but you know that.



See you in the funny papers Chris B. I swear I'll give $1,000 to the wildlife conservation group of your choice should you bring in a footie body. But given the quality of the evidence you've provided so far, I'm certain I won't be cutting that check.

That's wonderful.

Here I think is a part of the problem in a nutshell.

We have Chris telling us that the pictures are of a rather specific thing, of a specific size from a specific distance.

These claims strike many of us as preposterous. If you stood 51 feet away from a 12 foot ape, even if it is sitting down, and even if it is trying to hide behind bushes, two major explanations for the uninformative pictures exist: one is gross incompetence, and the other is dishonesty. It is hard to think of any third explanation for the quality of the pictures, and harder to think of any explanation for posting them that does not involve either dishonesty or delusion. One might roughly estimate the mass of a 12 foot animal, if one remembers Galileo, and expect that if it is proportioned more or less as a human is, it would likely be twice as wide and four times as heavy as a six foot man, who is leaner and lighter than, say, a Gorilla. It would have to be a pretty lean specimen not to top a half ton.

I have a sort of theory about bigfoot hunters. I suspect that many who are not outright hoaxers are not really convinced that their quarry exists, but they are dreadfully afraid it does and they'll miss the boat. As long as they can produce something, anything at all, that is not obviously nothing, they can claim priority if and when someone else actually gets something useful. It's about the only explanation other than outright hoaxing I can think of that would explain why any bigfoot hunter would embark on the job with the woebegone shortage of equipment and skill that characterize the pursuit.

The Chris videos are the Selden patents of bigfootery.

Don't take my theory too seriously. It's a thought exercise, mainly in vain, to explain things in a way that does not openly impugn intelligence.

Again, I've not presented that info here as viable evidence of Bigfoot. I am willing to entertain discussion on the pics and video though. If you do not see Bigfoot what do you see?

And again you are trying to dodge from the point I made- a new species of monkey (rather similar to others previously known) discovered at some remote corner of the world can to be used to open a door for a 3m-tall bipedal ape (something VERY different from known species) in USA and Canada living at some folks’ backyards.

Now, what about doing some unbiased brain work and considering what’s underneath the “I don’t know”? If you look for the answers, you’ll see it is, for all practical purposes, impossible for such an animal to be eluding us in 2014. Or 1960. Or 1890. Or 1790. It has not been found yet because it is not real. <- That’s a period.



Nope. Imagery of good quality and reliable provenance can be scientific data. At the very least such material would show us skeptics are quite likely wrong and trigger a ton of scientific projects for bigfoot, which would result in a specimen or more and better footage. Blobs, PGF, fake pics, these are nothing but evidence bigfootery is composed, in a no small amount, of pranks and hoaxes. “Science won’t accept my images of bigfoot” is an old lame excuse. Bring something new to the table.



Oh, really?

Care to tell us how you managed to know how a gigantopithecus looked like? Which species of the Gigantopithecus genus are you talking about, by the way? Would your source be Munns’ standing upright reconstruction?
How can you know they are not related to howler monkeys? Maybe Patty’s boobs are actually vocal sacks. Maybe they are marsupials. You don’t know. Unknown species. Maybe they are the kids from Mystique and The Beast. You know, those mutants from Marvel comics. This would explain LOTS of things. Hairy apey thing shape shifts to guy in ghillie suit, a tree stump, some hot girl/gal, a gorilla costume, Hieronimus, Gimlim, messes with camera traps…

I'm not here to prove Bigfoot for you. I don't have the evidence. Be content with your beliefs and remain skeptical. I'm all for that. Why the need to give me a hard time? Because we don't share the same opinion?

I've been able to study a skull model of Giganto. Unfortunately, due to the distance issue, I've not been able to study Bill Munns full size Giganto. though I'd like to see it up close.

My bolded. Because bigfoot does not exist. If you feel differently, you're definitely being asked to show that here. You haven't. The last time I checked, myths and stories do not show up in pictures. If you feel like bigfoot is a real entity, please by all means show us all. Otherwise, why in the world should or would we take you seriously on this topic? Also, we have described what we see in the photos. You failed to describe how you could differentiate between male and female on these claimed sightings. How can you tell Chris?

Every single bigfoot claim made to date that has been resolved is one of these three things. A hoax, delusional people, or misidentification. Feel free to prove that statement wrong if you can.

Chris, it's very simple. If you want folks here to take you seriously, show a photograph depicting a bigfoot. Not branches and shadows. While I'm sure you've heard this term used before. It's fitting when used describing your photographs.

When I have something to present, it will be very serious, regardless how anyone here takes it. Chris B.
 
I'm sorry, but the world just doesn't work that way.

You don't get to play by those rules.

It's not as if you don't know this.

You know very well who has the burden here.

You didn't just get off the bus.

Oh but it does work that way. If it's not Bigfoot what else is it? If you choose to have the opinion that the pic or video definitely does not contain an unknown creature, then you are obligated to voice your opinion of what the pic or video DOES contain. Two way street, nobody gets freebies.

If you cannot voice your opinion of what it is besides a bigfoot then why should I take you at your word it's not Bigfoot? Chris B.
 
As far as the giganto comparison, I've compared reconstructions of giganto skulls (models) against what I've seen and it's a match.

Here's some more logic, Chris:

Q: How do we know such a thing as Gigantopithecus ever lived?
A: We have fossils of its teeth and a few jawbones.

Q: We do? Cool! How many do we have?
A: Over 1000 individual items.

Q: Wow, that's actually a lot of physical remains, isn't it?
A: Yep, even though the volume of that material is said to fit in a big suitcase and we don't have anything like a complete skeleton, it's actually a lot of fossils.

Q: Were these found via heavily funded expeditions specifically geared toward the discovery of Gigantopithecus?
A: Nope, most of 'em had been found by local people in sediments of caves and what-not.

Q: That's great news!
A (Q): Really? Why?

Q: Well, if bigfoot is really Gigantopithecus, then we know that its remains fossilize. We have plenty of "local people" in North America who must have lived alongside these creatures for thousands of years. We also have plenty of caves and other sedimentary deposits that have been explored. So there must be thousands of bigfoot teeth and jawbones that have been discovered in North America, right?!
A: <crickets>
 
Oh but it does work that way. If it's not Bigfoot what else is it? If you choose to have the opinion that the pic or video definitely does not contain an unknown creature, then you are obligated to voice your opinion of what the pic or video DOES contain. Two way street, nobody gets freebies.

If you cannot voice your opinion of what it is besides a bigfoot then why should I take you at your word it's not Bigfoot? Chris B.

Do you understand how immature this argument makes you seem? You present a blurry, indistinct picture of a blob. It defies definition by anyone beyond a WAG, at best. And then expect someone to say "Well, since it's impossible to determine what, if anything, is in the picture, then I guess bigfoot must be a possibility". You could swap bigfoot with anything you want at that point and be making the same ridiculous argument that you are making. It's pointless and infantile. Given your history here, I did not expect much of you, but this lowers the bar even more.

Well done.


I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish here. You claim you are not here to present evidence for the existence of bigfoot. And then you present photos that you quite clearly declare as photos of bigfoot elsewhere, but here deign to make such claims. Instead you say you are just interested in what we may think the photo depicts. Well, you have already made up your mind what the photo depicts as is clear by the statements on your website. So what do you really want here? The usual nonsense? To count a bit of coup, manipulate some nasty skeptics so that you can prance off giggling back to the BFF and brag of your exploits in enemy territory?

Grow up Chris.
 
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Again, I've not presented that info here as viable evidence of Bigfoot. I am willing to entertain discussion on the pics and video though. If you do not see Bigfoot what do you see?
You say you'll entertain discussion, but all you want is discussion of what the photographs show, not of whether they show anything at all. I've told you what I see. I see bad photography of something that might be something but is probably nothing. That adds up to nothing.

You cannot keep toggling between the excuse of admitting you can't say what it is, and then saying what it is.
 
Here's some more logic, Chris:

Q: How do we know such a thing as Gigantopithecus ever lived?
A: We have fossils of its teeth and a few jawbones.

Q: We do? Cool! How many do we have?
A: Over 1000 individual items.

Q: Wow, that's actually a lot of physical remains, isn't it?
A: Yep, even though the volume of that material is said to fit in a big suitcase and we don't have anything like a complete skeleton, it's actually a lot of fossils.

Q: Were these found via heavily funded expeditions specifically geared toward the discovery of Gigantopithecus?
A: Nope, most of 'em had been found by local people in sediments of caves and what-not.

Q: That's great news!
A (Q): Really? Why?

Q: Well, if bigfoot is really Gigantopithecus, then we know that its remains fossilize. We have plenty of "local people" in North America who must have lived alongside these creatures for thousands of years. We also have plenty of caves and other sedimentary deposits that have been explored. So there must be thousands of bigfoot teeth and jawbones that have been discovered in North America, right?!
A: <crickets>

That was actually entertaining.

Do you understand how immature this argument makes you seem? You present a blurry, indistinct picture of a blob. It defies definition by anyone beyond a WAG, at best. And then expect someone to say "Well, since it's impossible to determine what, if anything, is in the picture, then I guess bigfoot must be a possibility". You could swap bigfoot with anything you want at that point and be making the same ridiculous argument that you are making. It's pointless and infantile. Given your history here, I did not expect much of you, but this lowers the bar even more.

Well done.


I don't understand what you are trying to accomplish here. You claim you are not here to present evidence for the existence of bigfoot. And then you present photos that you quite clearly declare as photos of bigfoot elsewhere, but here deign to make such claims. Instead you say you are just interested in what we may think the photo depicts. Well, you have already made up your mind what the photo depicts as is clear by the statements on your website. So what do you really want here? The usual nonsense? To count a bit of coup, manipulate some nasty skeptics so that you can prance off giggling back to the BFF and brag of your exploits in enemy territory?

Grow up Chris.

Look back thread and see who presented the pics for discussion. I'm willing to discuss them though. A discussion requires 2 participants with both parties contributing to the conversation. If you say there is no Bigfoot in the pics or video, then I expect to hear an alternate opinion.

Otherwise you are saying you want to rip on me without any discussion of the topic at hand? If you are certain there is no Bigfoot in the pics or video then what is it?

It's a simple request to continue the conversation. If you don't make any effort toward the discussion, the question is not why am I here, the question is why are you here? What do you expect here if not discussion?
Chris B
 
You say you'll entertain discussion, but all you want is discussion of what the photographs show, not of whether they show anything at all. I've told you what I see. I see bad photography of something that might be something but is probably nothing. That adds up to nothing.

You cannot keep toggling between the excuse of admitting you can't say what it is, and then saying what it is.

I guess then there's nothing further to discuss. The pics are a waste of time for anything other than kick starting a pile on. Nothing relevent can be determined by pics especially those. I'm fine with that. Chris B.
 
That was actually entertaining.



Look back thread and see who presented the pics for discussion. I'm willing to discuss them though. A discussion requires 2 participants with both parties contributing to the conversation. If you say there is no Bigfoot in the pics or video, then I expect to hear an alternate opinion.

Otherwise you are saying you want to rip on me without any discussion of the topic at hand? If you are certain there is no Bigfoot in the pics or video then what is it?

It's a simple request to continue the conversation. If you don't make any effort toward the discussion, the question is not why am I here, the question is why are you here? What do you expect here if not discussion?
Chris B

Chris, how is that you are not understanding that the pictures are too indistinct for anyone to tell you what they show? If you want to take that as a gotcha moment for why should you take or word for it that there is no bigfoot in the photo, then be my guest. But you should take our word for it just like, I assume, you would take the word of someone who told you it was not a T-Rex in the photo. The exercise you keep insisting on trying to get everyone to participate in is manipulative and pointless.
 
I guess then there's nothing further to discuss. The pics are a waste of time for anything other than kick starting a pile on. Nothing relevent can be determined by pics especially those. I'm fine with that. Chris B.
I do not think that your conclusion is entirely correct. Pictures are, of course, not the best or most complete evidence given the possibility of alteration, but a clear picture of something that could be identified would be highly relevant.

If you can get as close to a bigfoot as you claim to have done, and if such a creature is as big as you claim it is, then all you have to do is get a better photograph, and with patience and technique that should not be so hard. Until that occurs, there seems little to discuss, it's true, but I consider it largely a matter of photographic quality.

You could probably go to a thrift store and buy a competent point and shoot film camera for 5 or 10 bucks, and a roll of drugstore print film, and do better than what is presented here.
 
Yet another bizarre sexual story by Ketchum: dogman raped her horse. Around 9:30.

She prefaces that comment by claiming it is something that people report to her. lol. Sure.
 

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