The Ruby Creek Incident

In 1941, near Ruby Creek, British Columbia, a First Nation woman named Jeannie Chapman was terribly frightened when she saw a sasquatch approaching her home. The event made a local newspaper. Sixteen years later journalist John Green began investigating the possibility that North America was home to a Yeti-like ape and he interviewed Chapman, and others, about her sighting. Since her sighting was supported by tracks, he found her account even more instrumental than Roe’s or Ostman’s in convincing him that sasquatch were real.

Green fed zoologist and nature writer Ivan Sanderson his sasquatch accounts. Sanderson, a popular writer and personality of note, was in a position to make the Ruby Creek Incident “go viral” through his connection with national men’s adventure magazines, such as TRUE. Here is Sanderson’s account and investigation of the RBI:

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/classics/ruby.htm

In the way Sanderson portrays it, the incident seems virtually conclusive. Mrs. Chapman is honest. Her sighting was under good conditions: broad daylight, cloudless skies, and of long enough duration (in minutes) and proximity (up to 100 feet) for her to know what she saw. In addition, her husband and others found “enormous humanoid footprints” at the location.

Something to remember: the Ruby Creek Incident occurred in 1941. Sanderson interviewed the Chapmans 18 years later.

Here is Green’s account of the same event:

http://www.bigfoot-lives.com/html/ruby_creek.html

The accounts vary. The biggest discrepancy between the two retellings is where and how long Mrs. Chapman saw the sasquatch. Once she is told an animal is coming down the mountainside, according to Sanderson, “Mrs. Chapman went out to look…” Green says “she looked out the window…” Sanderson has her standing her ground while the sasquatch advanced, even quoting her: she had “much too much time to look at it.” Green suggests she fled almost immediately, through the front door placing the house between her (and her children) and the sasquatch. In other words, she could not see it as she fled, contrary to the retelling by Sanderson.

Green believed her, but with this concern: “I did not consider her story reliable as to detail, particularly as it was not entirely consistent, and I have since read accounts in which she is quoted as having said things which do not agree with some of the things she said to me.”

But her account was backed up by tracks, and that convinced Green.

Did Mrs. Chapman really see a sasquatch? Well, I’m inclined to think see saw a bear. If we view her sighting as literally told, contradictions and all, then she saw a hair covered man. Why do I think she saw a bear?

First, she probably only briefly viewed the animal. She saw a huge, hair covered animal standing on two legs. We know that she had been told (warned) since childhood about the sasquatch, a cultural norm that is the equivalent to “bogie man” stories to scare children for practical reasons. Sasquatch were giant, hairy men. Why didn’t she recognize a bear, if a bear it was? We are familiar with standing bears because of photos, pictures, TV and film. Mrs. Chapman probably had no such familiarity, and may have never seen a bear standing upright.

Secondly, the first person to see the animal, one of Mrs. Chapman’s children, described it as a “big cow.” A “big cow” would better describe a walking bear than a bipedal ape or hairy human.

I’m speculating that she saw a bear and thought it was a sasquatch because she held a strong, superstitious belief in the sasquatch and her brief look at a two-legged animal brought to her mind a real sasquatch.

The bear probably heard the commotion in and near the cabin, and stood on its hind legs to get a better look see. Mrs. Chapman, looking dead on, would not have discerned the bear’s muzzle. We may guess that much of what she later described, such as broad shoulder, were in response to later, leading questions from non-native sasquatch enthusiasts. The bear did what bears do; it broke into a barrel of fish.

What about the tracks? Again, if we accept literal what we have been told, it would be hard to attach them to a bear. However, despite what Green claimed, the tracks don’t look like Bigfoot tracks. He found wonderment in the fact that the Ruby Creek tracing was about the same size as the Crew track casting in California in the 1950’s; however, they don’t look to be from the same type of animal. According to Joshua Blu Buhs, on page 89 of his Bigfoot: The Life and Times of a Legend, “Ian MacTaggart, the zoologist with the British Columbia Provincial Museum, had told Green that the Ruby Creek prints were made by a bear, its front and rear tracks overlapping.”

Whatever the case, here is a previous discussion of bear/Bigfoot tracks:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45409

Here is contemporary usage of the Ruby Creek story, oddly mixing up Ivan Sanderson with Ivan Marx:

http://texascryptidhunter.blogspot.com/2010/06/sasquatch-classics-ruby-creek-incident.html
 
Jerrywayne,

I have been reading this thread with a quizzical look at some of the stuff. But it is different.

Thunderbirds are some of the reports that are on Stand Gordon's website: www.stangordon.info
These apparently within the last two years or so (southwestern PA and WVA). I have no comment on the accuracy of the reports, other than to say it is the eyewitness factor once again--how depdendable, or how undependable are they.
 
Crypto-comments

Jerrywayne,

I finished reading the JSTOR article from 1984, and found it interesting. Thanks for providing the URL link. The author's basic tenet is that Huevelmans got a lot of the macrocosmic things wrong in regards to what types of things Cryptozoology covers. The Okapi entry I wasn't aware that it wasn't indeed a "living fossil," as I have seen many places so labeled.

I also wasn't aware that sabre-tooth tigers are alleged to be still extant. I am curious to know more about that.

But one of the shortcomings is that the article was published in 1984. More than a quarter century later, there are no doubt many new animals to add to the initial graphic in the article about what species have been found.

But I do wonder about the claim that the marsupial tiger of Australia doesn't exist, as written in this published paper. It is also has been called the "Queensland Tiger," and the "Kenthurst Panther." I have a correspondent Down Under, and although our main topics that we discuss have nothing to do with "hidden animals," from time to time we cross over onto this.

Here is a URL link to some (yes unverified) eyewitness reports from 2003 of Tiger sightings. Provided to me by my correspondent., who lives in Toonwoomba.

http://www.yowiehunters.com.au/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=463

As to my own ideas about hidden animals, I don't have a read on what I am supposed to figure out/believe what they are, or what they are supposed to be linked to. I just know (in the ocean realm) that there are large animals unknown to, and uncatalogued by, science. I don't pretend to know what genus or species they belong to. Or whether they belong to uncategorized genuses or species sets. I don't like the idea of the concept of "living dinosaurs" per se, but if someone comes up with some photographic proof, I will give it my attention. But I do think that for many eco-niches, there are current creature analogues to what we see in the Mezozoic fossil record. But that doesn't mean that they are dinosaurs. (Although under current debate, I think that there is sufficient evidence to think that dinosaurs were warm blooded http://news.discovery.com/animals/dinosaurs/dinosaurs-warm-blooded-120628.htm --allowing them to occupy niches in the Arctic as one of those recently broadcast NOVA shows depicted, and I think potentially in the deep ocean for the same reason, and not merely in shallow seas.)

One further comment on the CBS Evening News with Scott Pelley news segment on the filming of the giant squid in its native habitat (about 3500 feet down in the Pacific). I saw this segment, and it was just spooky to me. The creature, in an apparent suspended, tentacles-down "holding pattern" in the black abyss (with its fins at the top of the mantle fluttering to seemingly keep it in that position stance) was just mesmerizing.

And then it moved, tentacles-forward. I dimly remember reading--in connection to the giant squid in Disney's "50,000 Leagues Under the Sea" --that when they had their squid do that, that that type of locomotion was incorrect. Yet the real thing did that.

One other thing. Arthur C. Clarke wrote a novel entitled "The Deep Range." In there the protagonists managed to capture a giant squid alive, and they also chased the 1000-foot (? I am dimly recalling) leviathan at the bottom of the Pacific, where the creature got buried by a sea-quake-initiated land slide (if memory serves). I read the book a very long time ago.
 
Zippy,

I'm not sure what to make of "panther" sightings. Seeing big cats on the British Ilse seems to be a fad. Most photos appear to be of common domestic cats. Although, I did find an article once that said an African Jungle Cat had been found as road kill. The assumption now is that people are letting their exotic cat pets loose. In Australia, there is belief in the Queensland Tiger, a marsupial: http://www.unknownexplorers.com/queenslandtiger.php The evidence seems very slight for the Tiger (and, of course, it is not a cat).

I live in Texas where some folks distinguish between pumas and panthers. I've asked folks who are sure there are panthers (not pumas) in their woods if they have ever seen one. No, but they hear them "scream like a woman" during the night. I chalk it up to folk belief; a common domestic cat can make a racket when in heat.

I do know someone who saw a "black panther" in broad daylight in Louisiana. Hard to accept such a claim. I wonder if people are not allowing for a cat, bobcat, or puma in a shaded area during a sunny day to appear dark, even black.

Some people on the border believe they see black jaguars. At least one source I read stated that black jaguars are very, very rare in the wild, almost unheard of in Mexico, and people generally don't know this because zoos and films over-represent the black phase of the jaguar.

Same source stated people were claiming to see jaguarundi in Arizona, where they are not known to exist. The interesting point was that only people who knew what a jaguarundi is, claimed to see it. If you didn't know, you never saw one.
 
And then it moved, tentacles-forward. I dimly remember reading--in connection to the giant squid in Disney's "50,000 Leagues Under the Sea" --that when they had their squid do that, that that type of locomotion was incorrect. Yet the real thing did that.

One other thing. Arthur C. Clarke wrote a novel entitled "The Deep Range." In there the protagonists managed to capture a giant squid alive, and they also chased the 1000-foot (? I am dimly recalling) leviathan at the bottom of the Pacific, where the creature got buried by a sea-quake-initiated land slide (if memory serves). I read the book a very long time ago.

Disney's Verne:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0qtWzbDgIQE

And here is a real treat for movie fans: the version not used -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf_acgvdKmE
 
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Here in Vermont the term "panther" is usually understood to mean a puma, and there have been occasional sightings for many years. It's still unclear whether or not there are any around, because wildlife officials are very coy about anything they can't verify. The way I hear it, if they acknowledge an actual wild puma they have to take responsibility for it, so they deny until it can't be denied any more. One was finally seen unequivocally in Connecticut, and dismissed as an out of state visitor, though a number of people I know down in Connecticut and up here would swear they've seen them for years.

Of course they're not really cryptids, since they were once known to be native, and since we know they still exist somewhere else. My guess is that, like coyotes a few years ago, they will turn out to have been coming back for some time before the officials recognize them. Plenty of places for them to hide.

Back in the 1990's my mother was up in her Connecticut wooded back lot, swimming in her pond, when a coyote came up, grabbed her small dog in plain view, and took it away, presumably to devour (it certainly never was seen again). Wildlife officials stoutly denied that there were any coyotes in the area, despite frequent sightings and night choruses, until a few months later hunters started bringing in bodies.

My wife is convinced she saw a puma while bicycling a couple of years ago, and is convinced she can tell the difference between this and a big house cat, and she certainly knows enough not to have mistaken a lynx or a bobcat, both of which we've met in the neighborhood, for something with a long tail. I remain slightly skeptical, but considering that she's not the only one who's seen one around here, it will not surprise me at all if someone gets a positive ID either. Our part of Western Vermont is a significant east-west migration corridor for all sorts of wildlife, and if there are any pumas hereabouts, they probably have come through here.

One of these days when the weather gets a little better I intend to put a wildlife camera out where we put the garbage. We've had a bobcat and an eagle there, so maybe if we get lucky I'll catch a transient puma snacking.
 
There is a panther thing down here where I live too. But as the former range of the Florida Panther and the Jaguar are very close to here, I always thought that there was a slim chance maybe the odd cat might be around.

Though, we also have bobcats, and at night (when most sightings are reported) a fats moving male bobcat could illicit a similar response i bet.
 
There is a panther thing down here where I live too. But as the former range of the Florida Panther and the Jaguar are very close to here, I always thought that there was a slim chance maybe the odd cat might be around.

Though, we also have bobcats, and at night (when most sightings are reported) a fats moving male bobcat could illicit a similar response i bet.
Bobcats can get pretty big, and lynxes even a little bigger, and they're fast and leggy. The Canada Lynx we saw last year was pretty impressive in size, and had a dun coat not so unlike a puma's. During the day you can spot the tail (or the lack of it) and the pointy ears, a lynx's oversized paws, and in the case of the bobcat the tabbyish fur, but as they say all cats are gray by night. If it's running you aren't likely to have time to be accurate.
 
........I did find an article once that said an African Jungle Cat had been found as road kill. ..........

Help me out here please. I am not sure there is any such creature. The only jungle cat that I know is Asian, although it has a tiny population in northern Egypt......Felis chaus. Is this the animal you are referring to?

Mike
 
Thanks jerry, but do you have something more academic than that? I have a feeling that may be a fallacious common name. If you had something with it's Latin name that would help.

Thanks

Mike
 
Thanks jerry, but do you have something more academic than that? I have a feeling that may be a fallacious common name. If you had something with it's Latin name that would help.

Thanks

Mike

Wild cat popular and regional names do seem to confuse things. Mountain lions (although not a lion), pumas, cougars, etc., one example.

Google African Jungle Cat you will get hits that include photos and videos. But the cat most covered seem to be the Jungle Cat, which occurs in areas of Egypt (in Africa) and Asia. There is the Felis silvestria lybica, the African Wild Cat, but it does not appear that it is what people are calling the African Jungle Cat.

Jungle Cat info and video: http://bigcatrescue.org/jungle-cat-facts/

Here is a brief video described as an African Jungle Cat, but is probably the Jungle Cat or hybrid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iqe9oj8nhNQ
 
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OK, thanks Jerry.

Yep, the African Wild Cat is an altogether different beast, and I have seen it all over southern Africa, usually on open grassland or plains. The Jungle Cat, therefore, is the animal I linked to above (Felis chaus), and the only African version of it left is a tiny population in Egypt known as the Felis chaus nilotica.

Mike
 
I figured he meant that the avg citizen seeing said cat would describe it as a "Jungle Cat" as they knew it looked exotic but wasn't as big or something they'd easily ID like a Tiger or a Leopard.
 
Here is a crypto site giving eyewitness big cat sightings in Texas: http://texascryptidhunter.blogspot.com/2011/03/big-cats-in-texas-readers-have-their.html

Here is a chow dog modified cut that have some people seeing lion: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/09/charles-the-monarch-dog-lion-911_n_2439913.html

Brief statement about various animals mistaken for puma: http://mdc.mo.gov/discover-nature/wildlife-reporting/mountain-lion-reports

Tigers in downtown Dallas: http://www.wfaa.com/news/Tigers-on-the-loose-in-downtown-Dallas-98813859.html I remember that later it was suggested people had seen bobcats, which is credible (river bottoms not far from downtown).

But, on the other hand: http://www.chron.com/news/houston-t...-near-Dallas-freeway-was-probably-1530938.php
 
never get out of the boat, absolutely goddamn right, unless you were going all the way...
 

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