Secessionist conspiracies

[SDC]

OK, here in the States we've got the extreme lefty Vermont granola-crunching secessionist conspiracy, making contact with the "oh no we aren't white supremacist" white southern conspiracy, both of them talking Secession.

We have various others that seem to be in abeyance for now, like the Texas Republic.

Meanwhile, the UK has the SNP, and probably some Welsh Nats, and I certainly hope some Yorkshire liberationists.

Belgium may finally, again, be on the brink of splitting, Fleming vs Walloon.

Canada may have dodged the bullet as the Quebecois seem to have settled down, though I found it noteworthy that the Inuits (? which exact nation?) threatened secession from Quebec if Quebec seceded, last time the vote came up.

Some of these are a joke -- the US references, at the top, well I mean they exist, but they are a feeble joke in terms of political support -- but some of the rest are/ have been quite serious.

What's my question? Oh well, the universal fallback; what does it all mean?

 

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

I think I replied to a post just like this moments ago. Maybe I'm having DejaVu.

But in reference to the far left granola wannabeChe lefties teaming up with the far right "Oh we're not racist, we hate all non-whites equally" white supremacists (in association with the reverse vampires and the saucer people) I believe they're setting up their own version of a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

 

[SDC]

I think I replied to a post just like this moments ago. Maybe I'm having DejaVu.

But in reference to the far left granola wannabeChe lefties teaming up with the far right "Oh we're not racist, we hate all non-whites equally" white supremacists (in association with the reverse vampires and the saucer people) I believe they're setting up their own version of a Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

You did, in the Real Conspiracies thread. I wanted to ask a new question about all these Secesh movements in general. Maybe I should have asked it in the Real Conspiracies thread, but I figured heck, if I did wrong the mods will just tase me and that will be that.

I was not aware of reverse vampires, by the way. Do they donate blood?

 

[funk de fino]

The SNP believe in home rule for Scots

Scotland is a country not a region or section of society, it should, and will be, independant again one day

There will never be violence used to achieve this and it is not for racist or bigotted reasons

We already have a majority in our own assembly

If you do not vote SNP you are voting for an English party

 

[Stellafane]

I think many latter-day successionist movements remind me of my teenaged daughter when she threatens to leave home: they really haven't thought anything through; they're just reacting to something happening at the moment that they don't like but can't change.

 

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

Reverse Vampires are hurt by darkness, therefore they must rush home before the sun sets to get under their UV lamps.

But back OT: What about "La Raza" and "Reconquista" CT/movements in Mexico and the the U.S. Southwest that want to reclaim parts of the U.S. "stolen" from Mexico? (For the record, I'm a legal immigration proponent, after all my wife is an immigrant. I'm not anti-immigration. I think streamlining the process so more immigrants can come here legally is the answer, as well as enforcement of the border.)

 

[SDC]

The SNP believe in home rule for Scots

Scotland is a country not a region or section of society, it should, and will be, independant again one day

There will never be violence used to achieve this and it is not for racist or bigotted reasons

We already have a majority in our own assembly

If you do not vote SNP you are voting for an English party

I know there is strong support for the SNP, but I don't know really what it means. Does the general movement believe in staying somehow in or tied to the UK, or complete independence in larger framework of the European community? How much is it just a protest vote, to tick off the English or register dislike for Blair/ Brown/ the Queen? How deep is it? How wide but shallow? Can we expect violence, as in Ireland? I see you say not, but what if it is somehow frustrated? Is there a pro-violence element on the movement's fringe, even of the AJ-rhetoric variety?

In the US, secesh movements (at least since a certain unpleasantness in the early 1860s) have pretty much always been very fringe, and not uncommonly rooted in racism or ideas of violent rebellion of one sort or another. In recent years, there have been notions of white Christian nations in Idaho or the Pacific NW states; actually, that kind of sentiment comes and goes in US history, an ebb and flow (the ebb often associated with the movement being imprisoned for hideously violent acts).

I always found it interesting that in (some?) international supporting events Wales and Scotland, at least, have representation separate from England. I first encountered that in following international soccer/ football. I suppose that has a non-political history, in some way, at least.

 

[SDC]

Reverse Vampires are hurt by darkness, therefore they must rush home before the sun sets to get under their UV lamps.

But back OT: What about "La Raza" and "Reconquista" CT/movements in Mexico and the the U.S. Southwest that want to reclaim parts of the U.S. "stolen" from Mexico? (For the record, I'm a legal immigration proponent, after all my wife is an immigrant. I'm not anti-immigration. I think streamlining the process so more immigrants can come here legally is the answer, as well as enforcement of the border.)

I am hoping you are joking about reverse vamps.

You're right, that's another kind of movement. The Mexico-related movements have ebbed and flowed as well; aren't they in ebb right now, despite or because of the heavy immigration? Some years ago I ran across a book about an actual failed uprising in Texas (ca.1910?) which was violently suppressed by the Anglos and the Rangers, and has been pretty well forotten.

And of course there have been extremist Black groups calling for a separate country covering much or all of the old Confederacy. I remember that from the late 60s-70s.

No doubt there are any number of groups out there. The one that surprised me most, in that I'd never had a clue, was when the Republic of Texas guys got in the news; that strange fellow who claimed to be the President of the Republic because the real annexation of 1845 had not been legal. He looked like -- well, an accountant or something, not a crazed, armed political loony. (Apologies to any accountants out there. My prejudices are my failing.)

 

[Disbelief]

Reverse Vampires are hurt by darkness, therefore they must rush home before the sun sets to get under their UV lamps.

But back OT: What about "La Raza" and "Reconquista" CT/movements in Mexico and the the U.S. Southwest that want to reclaim parts of the U.S. "stolen" from Mexico? (For the record, I'm a legal immigration proponent, after all my wife is an immigrant. I'm not anti-immigration. I think streamlining the process so more immigrants can come here legally is the answer, as well as enforcement of the border.)

There are also indigenous Mexicans who feel the country should be returned to them (and all indigenous from Central America through Canada) and that all Euros should be shipped back.

 

[8den]

I am hoping you are joking about reverse vamps.

Not a Simpsons fan are you?

Bart: OK, it's not _painfully_ clear the adults are _definitely_
paving the way for an invasion by the saucer people.

Milhouse: You fool! Can't you see it's a massive government conspiracy?
Or have they gotten to you too?
[he and Bart start wrestling]

Lisa: Hey! Hey, hey, stop it! Stop it! Why are you guys jumping
to such ridiculous conclusions? Haven't you ever heard of
Occam's Razor? "The simplest explanation is probably the
correct one."

Bart: [condescending] So what's the simplest explanation?

Lisa: I don't know. Maybe they're all reverse vampires and they
have to get home before dark.

Everyone: Aah! Reverse vampires! Reverse vampires!

 

[SDC]

Not a Simpsons fan are you?

Whoof. So pleased to know this.

Actually, you (8den) and I share, I believe, the honorable status of being the two people quoted in ... m****82's sig. Greetings, comrade. What's the secret password?

 

[8den]

Whoof. So pleased to know this.

Actually, you (8den) and I share, I believe, the honorable status of being the two people quoted in ... m****82's sig. Greetings, comrade. What's the secret password?

I have no idea. Whats the quote?

 

[SDC]

I have no idea. Whats the quote?

Nuts. It's been disappeared from his old messages. Oh well, you can take my word for it. Or not.

 

[funk de fino]

I know there is strong support for the SNP, but I don't know really what it means. Does the general movement believe in staying somehow in or tied to the UK, or complete independence in larger framework of the European community?

Complete independence as was had before the act of union and complete autonomy in Europe, seperate from the rest of the UK, like Eire.

its not a movement its a real political party with a majority administration in scotland

How much is it just a protest vote, to tick off the English or register dislike for Blair/ Brown/ the Queen? How deep is it? How wide but shallow?

simple answer - not the reason at all

Can we expect violence, as in Ireland? I see you say not, but what if it is somehow frustrated? Is there a pro-violence element on the movement's fringe, even of the AJ-rhetoric variety?

Never, its been frustrated for years, no pro violence, no AJ lunacy

I always found it interesting that in (some?) international supporting events Wales and Scotland, at least, have representation separate from England. I first encountered that in following international soccer/ football. I suppose that has a non-political history, in some way, at least.

first ever international soccer teams, so seperate, always will be

 

[SpaceMonkeyZero]

So I decide to spend the rest of my lunch break "Stumbling" and hit my StumbleUpon button, and what came up?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003/ap_on_re_us/secessionist_movement_1

Secessionists meeting in Tennessee

If allowed to go their own way, New Englanders "probably would allow abortion and have gun control," Hill said, while Southerners "would probably crack down on illegal immigration harder than it is being now."

 

[SDC]

Complete independence as was had before the act of union and complete autonomy in Europe, seperate from the rest of the UK, like Eire.

first ever international soccer teams, so seperate, always will be

Edited to get at the question I want to ask.

Your last comment suggests an interesting history behind the existence of the separate soccer teams. Please advise or refer. A seemingly trivial concession to Scottish sporting opinion? A way to stack the odds so some UK team would have a better chance in international competition? Or a way to give the English team serious competition, decades ago when international soccer was relatively new? Or just some random decision that someone made without considering consequences. (This last being perhaps the most frequent and powerful element in politics.)

 

[Pardalis]

What's my question?

Yes, I was wondering when you'd finally get to it.

Oh well, the universal fallback; what does it all mean?

Oh, I see you had nothing to say to begin with.

What a waste of bandwidth.

 

[Alferd_Packer]

Lets not forget the yupers and Superior

 

[SDC]

Lets not forget the yupers and Superior

I lived in Michigan for 10 years (2 five-year batches) and while I've heard of the yoopers I never heard of this, I think. Well, I was in the southeast of the state.

Pardalis: I apologize for any offense, or wasting anyone's time. I find secessionist movements an interesting topic, often linked to conspiratorial activity.

 

[Pardalis]

Pardalis: I apologize for any offense, or wasting anyone's time. I find secessionist movements an interesting topic, often linked to conspiratorial activity.

OK, but the "secessionist" movements you presented all have their own history, are each different with their own sets of circumstances. You can't just throw them all in one pot.

For one thing there's absolutely nothing conspiratorial about the Québec Sovereignty Movement, two very public referendums can hardly be called secretive. Like in any political debates, there are petty politics being played on both sides of the issue, but nothing conspiratorial.