Secession

[TragicMonkey]

I wonder if the seccesionist folks ever realize, we'll take back our property. If Texas secedes, the US will rightfully take back all their military and space aeronautics stuff.

And the oil doesn't actually belong to state or feds, it belongs to the companies that drill it up. Of course Texas could try to nationalize that industry and seize the resources in the name of the people, but I see Texas embracing communism as being slightly less likely than it seceding in the first place.

 

[Norman Alexander]

I have not seen anyone answer your question in quite this way, so I will attempt to do so now.

Essentially, since the US Constitution does not have any provisions for the various States to secede from the Union, then I expect that some sort of long, drawn out legal procedure that would be necessary to allow a State to actually secede from the Union.

In fact, I would not be surprised if the US Constitution would actually need to be amended to allow for a State (or States) to secede from the Union.

And if a State, or States, did secede without following these procedures, then I expect that second Civil War would ensue.

I hope this helps!

Doubt it. Why would the USA actually WANT to prevent Texas from seceding? It's not like they play well with the other states now. What would change, except for the relocation of the "border wall" somewhat further north?

 

[Manopolus]

so who's going to do all the crop picking and other **** jobs currently done by immigrants ... some fat, lazy Texans?

Knowing Texas (and I've lived there)? Probably convict labor, which would also be mostly immigrants. But most of their agriculture isn't the sort that needs to be "picked," unlike California. There are some exceptions, but not that much. They raise a lot of grains and soybeans, just like we do in Kansas. The combine does the picking (completely mechanized... technically only requires one person if you're not in a hurry, but it's usually a family effort, and sometimes two or more random farmers are reciprocally assisting each other).

If migrants coming to Texas are there for the agriculture, they're likely a bit confused. That's almost all in California. Admittedly, they do use migrants on cattle farms and dairys, too (as well as in slaughterhouses), but that's not seasonal. That's long-term employees with green cards (whether real or fake in any given case, who knows. I would tend to suspect that most of them are legal, but some locals disagree with me on that (not that they know)... we have migrants working at the local dairy, here, as well as at a few industrial hog farms in another part of the county).

 

[zorro99]

Texas should secede... then they will find out that surviving without the Federal government will not be as easy as they think.

- All Texas borders (no just the Southern one) would have to be controlled - costs money
- They would need their own Army, Navy and Air Force - costs money
- No Federal money for education, health, defence or infrastructure
- Supply all their own energy requirements... they could probably do that 90% of the time, but their distribution network is ****** (remember when the system collapsed in the winter storms of 2021.... when Ted Cruz buggered-off to Cancun and left his fellow Texans to freeze to death?)
- Since a prime reason for Texas seceding is the border and immigration, they would expel all immigrants - so who's going to do all the crop picking and other **** jobs currently done by immigrants ... some fat, lazy Texans?

They would need their own currency and their own postal service.

 

[Gulliver Foyle]

Given some of the political differences in this country and what is going on in Texas with the board. I was wondering if there is a legal way to secede. I didn't think there was because I was not aware of any language in the constitution that spells this out. However, it turns out there is a Supreme Court case according to FindLaw that allows for it.



Assuming this interpretation is correct, I'm not a lawyer so I hesitate to comment on the validity of this quote. However, I wonder sometimes if the bar should be lower. If a state had some kind of plebiscite where a high percentage (75-80%) of the population wishes to leave.

To make anything change in the process, I think needs a constitutional amendment.

Legally there isn't. Texass already lost a war proving same.

Though it would be funny if Abbott were allowed to declare independence. Within six months the major cities would all be agitating to secede back into the US.

 

[Lplus]

How about California?

https://www.newsweek.com/california...ants-national-divorce-avoid-civil-war-1866739

 

[Donal]

They would need their own currency and their own postal service.

Abbott is a fan of Bitcoin. I'm sure something that requires massive resources to mine with no tangible value will do the trick.

 

[Hercules56]

The deadbeat Red states that live off the Federal taxes that come from Blue states are more than welcome to leave.

They are keeping the rest of the country from becoming the Progressive society we have been dreaming about for decades.

Once they are gone, we will have Medicare for All, free college, stronger gun laws, stronger union protections, abortion rights for all, cleaner environment, higher wages, more corporate responsibility.

So why would we stop the Red states from leaving????

 

[RolandRat]

Texas should secede... then they will find out that surviving without the Federal government will not be as easy as they think.

- All Texas borders (no just the Southern one) would have to be controlled - costs money
- They would need their own Army, Navy and Air Force - costs money
- No Federal money for education, health, defence or infrastructure
- Supply all their own energy requirements... they could probably do that 90% of the time, but their distribution network is ****** (remember when the system collapsed in the winter storms of 2021.... when Ted Cruz buggered-off to Cancun and left his fellow Texans to freeze to death?)
- Since a prime reason for Texas seceding is the border and immigration, they would expel all immigrants - so who's going to do all the crop picking and other **** jobs currently done by immigrants ... some fat, lazy Texans?

They probably wouldn't need those to be fair.

 

[Donal]

The deadbeat Red states that live off the Federal taxes that come from Blue states are more than welcome to leave.

They are keeping the rest of the country from becoming the Progressive society we have been dreaming about for decades.

Once they are gone, we will have Medicare for All, free college, stronger gun laws, stronger union protections, abortion rights for all, cleaner environment, higher wages, more corporate responsibility.

So why would we stop the Red states from leaving????

The neoliberals are all leaving? Be still, my heart.

 

[Hercules56]

The neoliberals are all leaving? Be still, my heart.

I dont think any Liberals would flee to the deadbead Red states.

When the USA takes back all their military bases and military industry, they are REALLY gonna be hurting.

But we will be willing to renew our contracts with them, for a fair market-value price.

 

[Random]

The deadbeat Red states that live off the Federal taxes that come from Blue states are more than welcome to leave.

They are keeping the rest of the country from becoming the Progressive society we have been dreaming about for decades.

Once they are gone, we will have Medicare for All, free college, stronger gun laws, stronger union protections, abortion rights for all, cleaner environment, higher wages, more corporate responsibility.

So why would we stop the Red states from leaving????

On the surface, it sounds appealing doesn't it. Let's take all our racist, homophobic, misogynistic, fascist dead-enders, bundle them all into a certain geographic area and cut that area loose. If they actively want to leave, so much the better. But there are a couple of issues.

First, if states can get up and leave whenever they want, the US becomes much weaker overall. If we are all in the same boat, we care a lot more about the well-being of that single boat than if we are a bunch of individual boats.

Second, it would be a logistical nightmare. Anyone here who thinks it would be simple or easy should take a look at the Brexit thread. Oof.

Third, we are all mixed together, even in the most hard-core red or blue states. Trump got almost a third of the vote in Massachusetts in 2020. To quote Randall Monroe again:

There are more Trump voters in California than Texas, more Biden voters in Texas than New York, more Trump voters in New York than Ohio, more Biden voters in Ohio than Massachusetts, more Trump voters in Massachusetts than Mississippi, and more Biden voters in Mississippi than Vermont.

So who is seceding from whom?

 

[Hercules56]

On the surface, it sounds appealing doesn't it. Let's take all our racist, homophobic, misogynistic, fascist dead-enders, bundle them all into a certain geographic area and cut that area loose. If they actively want to leave, so much the better. But there are a couple of issues.

First, if states can get up and leave whenever they want, the US becomes much weaker overall. If we are all in the same boat, we care a lot more about the well-being of that single boat than if we are a bunch of individual boats.

Second, it would be a logistical nightmare. Anyone here who thinks it would be simple or easy should take a look at the Brexit thread. Oof.

Third, we are all mixed together, even in the most hard-core red or blue states. Trump got almost a third of the vote in Massachusetts in 2020. To quote Randall Monroe again:



So who is seceding from whom?

They cant leave whenever they want.

There must be a fair state referendum first.

Then both houses of Congress have to approve them leaving.

The President has to sign off on it. He can always veto.

I honestly believe that a big part of a democracy is freedom. And that includes the freedom to leave a country if the people so desire it. Just like the EU allows. Just like the Soviet Union should have allowed.

If the people of Hawaii say "**** you, we want our own country again!!!", who are we to stand in their way???

 

[theprestige]

Wrong.

Supreme Court said a state can not unilaterally secede.

Said nothing about doing it with the consent of the states and Congress.

The OP cites a Supreme Court decision that says explicitly that secession must be done with the consent of the states and Congress.

 

[Lplus]

I dont think any Liberals would flee to the deadbead Red states.

When the USA takes back all their military bases and military industry, they are REALLY gonna be hurting.

But we will be willing to renew our contracts with them, for a fair market-value price.

And they'll probably sell you the food they grow - at a fair market price...

 

[Hercules56]

And they'll probably sell you the food they grow - at a fair market price...

We already buy food at fair market price.

But the military industry in the red deadbeat states is govt subsidized. Wont be anymore. Govt subsidized factories and companies will only be in the USA.

Regardless, California is the breadbasket of the USA and they will stay part of the USA.

 

[slyjoe]

On the surface, it sounds appealing doesn't it. Let's take all our racist, homophobic, misogynistic, fascist dead-enders, bundle them all into a certain geographic area and cut that area loose. If they actively want to leave, so much the better. But there are a couple of issues.

First, if states can get up and leave whenever they want, the US becomes much weaker overall. If we are all in the same boat, we care a lot more about the well-being of that single boat than if we are a bunch of individual boats.

Second, it would be a logistical nightmare. Anyone here who thinks it would be simple or easy should take a look at the Brexit thread. Oof.

Third, we are all mixed together, even in the most hard-core red or blue states. Trump got almost a third of the vote in Massachusetts in 2020. To quote Randall Monroe again:



So who is seceding from whom?

Exactly. Red/Blue States? To sum it up, land doesn't vote.

 

[Donal]

I dont think any Liberals would flee to the deadbead Red states.

But who will they blame for stopping things labor protections and expanding Medicare? Who will give cover to centrists to push the Overton window to the right?

When the USA takes back all their military bases and military industry, they are REALLY gonna be hurting.

It will be fairly painful for us as well, having to pack up and move all that stuff.

And I'm sure it will work out great for the poor and minority populations in those states.

But we will be willing to renew our contracts with them, for a fair market-value price.

not bombing them and taking their oil?

 

[Hercules56]

Exactly. Red/Blue States? To sum it up, land doesn't vote.

Right, but people do.

And if the people of a state vote by a fair referendum to leave the USA, for fair reasons, who are we to stop them?

 

[Donal]

And they'll probably sell you the food they grow - at a fair market price...

considering how they won't have federal subsidies and will be desperate to move it...yes. And we can easily find another trading partner, eh.

this here is part of my point. Nobody realizes the relationship between the states or how things got the way they are. These aren't geographical divides.