Sean Penn and his El Chapo interview

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I'm sure everyone knows about this by now, but I haven't seen a thread dedicated to it and it's not being talked about in the most recent El Chapo thread (about his recapture).

I don't know if it deserves its own thread, but I'm creating this one because I was reading a recent CNN article about it and had an objection to comments made by both Penn and El Chapo.

Sean Penn on El Chapo scoop: 'My article failed'

"We're going to put all our focus -- forget about blame -- we're going to put all our focus, all our energy, all our billions of dollars on the 'bad guy,' and what happens? You get another death the next day the same way," Penn told Rose.

I completely get the frustration of spending so much money and seeing so little results, but this is kind of dumb. It reads as if we shouldn't be going after people like El Chapo simply because other people are doing the same thing.

If I burned down a house, the fact that someone else burned down an entirely different house a week later does not absolve me of my crime, regardless of how much is being spent on firefighting efforts.

El Chapo asserted something similar in a response to one of Penn's questions. When asked whether he feels responsible for high levels of drug addiction, El Chapo said, "No, that is false, because the day I don't exist, it's not going to decrease in any way at all."

This is even dumber. If I burn down a house, the fact that the house won't magically repair itself the day I die does not absolve me of my crime.

 

[newyorkguy]

I understand the objections but I think what they are saying is, if there are many people burning down houses, and many homeowners seem to want their house burned down, it doesn't make too much sense to focus on one lone arsonist.

My problem with Chapo is the level of violence of his cartel. They are responsible for thousands of murders, almost to the level of terrorism. Killing people and then hanging the bodies from an interchange sign on a major Mexican highway to be viewed by motorists in the morning rush. Killing two traffickers, cutting their heads off and then rolling their heads into a crowded bar that they frequented. That's insanity.

Would the money spent on law enforcement yield better results if it was redirected to drug treatment? I'm not sure it would have much more effect.

 

[The Big Dog]

"This is somebody who—upon whose interview could I begin a conversation about the policy of the war on drugs. That was my simple idea."

When i heard that this morning, I thought What a smarmy pompous asshat.

Oh sorry, I meant he is someone upon whose comment we could begin a conversation about Sean Penn being an asshat.

"i don't know what a laptop is, hurr durr!" Oh Spicoli.....

 

[dudalb]

The Ultimate comment on Sean Penn was made in "Team America:World Police".
Fact is that a lot of people on the political Left are very critical of Penn because he is often so nieve and supports so many unsavory people.
It's possible to favor the legalization of drugs and still think that the Drug lords are a bunch of murdering bastards who should be in prison.
This reminds me of the whole glamorization of Al Capone as just providing the public with a product it wants,forgetting about such little things as the St Valentine's Day Massacre.

 

[Cl1mh4224rd]

I understand the objections but I think what they are saying is, if there are many people burning down houses, and many homeowners seem to want their house burned down, it doesn't make too much sense to focus on one lone arsonist.

[...]

Would the money spent on law enforcement yield better results if it was redirected to drug treatment? I'm not sure it would have much more effect.

I'm probably oversimplifying, but this sounds like a sort defeatism; that there's no solution to this problem, because it can't be effectively attacked from the supply side and can't be effectively attacked from the demand side.

 

[Varanid]

I'm probably oversimplifying, but this sounds like a sort defeatism; that there's no solution to this problem, because it can't be effectively attacked from the supply side and can't be effectively attacked from the demand side.

Not sure about Penn, but I think the argument is "if these things weren't illegal, the Cartel wouldn't be in business."

I tend to agree in part. Certainly with respect to marijuana. The Cartel cannot outcompete the large-scale, commercial agriculture complex. Or for that matter, citizens growing plants on their porches.

This is aside from the ethical problems with the prohibition of marijuana, and to a lesser extent, other drugs.

 

[newyorkguy]

If marijuana and cocaine weren't illegal there would be no drug cartels is, I think, obvious. Should they be illegal? That's a tough question!

I think we are at a point where literally millions of people use these drugs recreationally and suffer no particular problems. They work, they raise families, they otherwise obey the law, etc. Some people can't handle them it's true. There should be programs available to treat people who become addicted. But continuing to spend billions of dollars and jailing tens of thousands of people in order to do the impossible -- end the supply of drugs -- makes no sense.

 

[Trebuchet]

I keep reading the thread title as "El Cheapo". Just sayin'.

 

[Trebuchet]

I keep reading the thread title as "El Cheapo". Just sayin'.

ETA: Penn is, of course, a self-centered asshat. On a par with D. Trump.

ETAA: That was supposed to be an edit, not a quote. Ethanol is bad for you.

 

[angrysoba]

"This is somebody who—upon whose interview could I begin a conversation about the policy of the war on drugs. That was my simple idea."

When i heard that this morning, I thought What a smarmy pompous asshat.

Oh sorry, I meant he is someone upon whose comment we could begin a conversation about Sean Penn being an asshat.

"i don't know what a laptop is, hurr durr!" Oh Spicoli.....

Maybe, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which he would not put.

Hey, Sean. Ending a sentence with a preposition is something you can put up with, arsehat!

 

[Cain]

Sean Penn has ****** Robin Wright, Scarlet Johansson, and Charlize Theron... I was going somewhere with that but then forgot what I was going to say because I'm in awe.

 

[Trebuchet]

Sean Penn has ****** Robin Wright, Scarlet Johansson, and Charlize Theron... I was going somewhere with that but then forgot what I was going to say because I'm in awe.

And beat the crap out of Madonna.

 

[Cain]

Everybody makes mistakes. My mother did.

Besides, Madonna's from Detroit. She can take a punch. Or two. (Also, she now claims that he never struck her, and of course he was never arrested or charged).

 

[mifune]

Sean Penn is an idiot.

But we should legalise and regulate all drugs from heroin to weed, that would remove the vast majority of income for the cartels of america and the warlords of afghanistan in one simple move.

Tax recreational drugs like weed and ecstasy and cocaine, allow sensible prescriptions for heroin on the NHS/whatever system you have and spend some of the tax revenue on treatment programs for any addicts. Approach drug addiction as a medical issue and not a criminal issue and society would be a much better place. It would be a lot cheaper than the billions spent on drug enforcement too.

 

[Babbylonian]

Even in a war that shouldn't be fought, there are villains and El Chapo is pretty obviously one of them. There are also fools who want to do the right thing and end up trying to do right in the dumbest possible way, like Sean Penn. He's just not as bright as he thinks he is.

 

[newyorkguy]

...Approach drug addiction as a medical issue and not a criminal issue and society would be a much better place. It would be a lot cheaper than the billions spent on drug enforcement too.

I agree this is probably the most common sense solution. But the problem is, in the U.S. it is politically impossible. There is a huge demographic that would be totally opposed to it on moral grounds. Even more problematic, those who oppose are likely to be more active, more determined than those who support the change. Their voices against will be heard all out of proportion to their numbers.

We're decades away from any meaningful liberalization of drug laws.

 

[Trebuchet]

Even in a war that shouldn't be fought, there are villains and El Chapo is pretty obviously one of them. There are also fools who want to do the right thing and end up trying to do right in the dumbest possible way, like Sean Penn. He's just not as bright as he thinks he is.

He's not as ANYTHING as he thinks he is.

 

[BStrong]

The single act that could best reform the massive cluster **** we call the criminal justice system would be to decriminalize drug possession across the board.

It would require the regulation of sales and purity of product which could be partially or wholly funded by a nominal state and federal tax on the product and the federal, state and local LE functions currently dedicated to drug enforcement could be redirected towards violent crimes and other crimes against persons.

I don't know about other states, but here in Ca. it's cheaper to house someone in residential drug treatment than state prison and rehab might actually have a positive effect for the addict or alcoholic.

 

[mifune]

I agree this is probably the most common sense solution. But the problem is, in the U.S. it is politically impossible. There is a huge demographic that would be totally opposed to it on moral grounds. Even more problematic, those who oppose are likely to be more active, more determined than those who support the change. Their voices against will be heard all out of proportion to their numbers.

We're decades away from any meaningful liberalization of drug laws.

Sadly true, the UK seems a long way from rational drug laws too.

 

[angrysoba]

I agree this is probably the most common sense solution. But the problem is, in the U.S. it is politically impossible. There is a huge demographic that would be totally opposed to it on moral grounds. Even more problematic, those who oppose are likely to be more active, more determined than those who support the change.

Probably because the latter are on drugs.