Scott Peterson Poll: Life or Death?

[seayakin]

Punishment and negative reinforcement are different things.
http://www.mcli.dist.maricopa.edu/proj/nru/nr.html

Perhaps you meant negative consequences?

In any case, the death penalty doesn't alter future behavior, because there isn't any after it is applied.

I always had difficulty with the concept of conditioning in my psych classes.

In any case, it has been argued that the death penalty serves to modify criminal behavior. In other words, it deters individuals from committing capital offenses.

The justice system can try to accomplish 1 of or a combination of 4 things

-Rehabilitate (Punish) individuals
-Provide revenge and closure for the victims
-Remove dangerous individuals from society
-Deter other criminal activity

As Crimresearch has pointed out, Capital Punishment cannot Punish.

 

[Beleth]

Federal oppression. Waco, Ruby Ridge, general hatred of da gubmint.

Pretty general cause, and not one that support of can easily be traced back to McVeigh's execution. If anyone's the martyr here, it's the guy that was killed at Ruby Ridge. He's the one that triggered the other situations, and since he wasn't executed, you can't take that situation as evidence that execution produces martyrs.

Can we trust a time limit? WTC was bombed in 1993, and 8 years later, the towers came down. It hasn't been 8 years since McVeigh was executed.

Ahh, the Nostradamus Defense!

I am very calm. How do you suggest a situation like Peterson is avoided in the future? Should his sentence be overturned?

I'm not sure what you mean by "a situation like Peterson".

Peterson hasn't been sentenced yet, so there is no sentence to overturn. If I were the judge and I knew what I know right now, I would reject the jury's suggestion in favor of life in prison. But I'm not the judge, and he knows more than I do about the case.

 

[CFLarsen]

Pretty general cause, and not one that support of can easily be traced back to McVeigh's execution. If anyone's the martyr here, it's the guy that was killed at Ruby Ridge. He's the one that triggered the other situations, and since he wasn't executed, you can't take that situation as evidence that execution produces martyrs.

It doesn't matter how you evaluate the cause - what matters is how these people evaluate it.

Weaver wasn't killed. His son, wife and dog was.

Ahh, the Nostradamus Defense!

Hey, you are the one bringing up a time limit. If you don't want to argue it anymore, just say so.

I'm not sure what you mean by "a situation like Peterson".

Peterson hasn't been sentenced yet, so there is no sentence to overturn. If I were the judge and I knew what I know right now, I would reject the jury's suggestion in favor of life in prison. But I'm not the judge, and he knows more than I do about the case.

Peterson has been convicted, and the jurors have recommended that he gets the death penalty. This recommendation is apparently because he was a cold fish.

Is that fair? Should that recommendation be overturned?

 

[varwoche]

Maybe they are trying to be more like us.
list of countries that have Coca-Cola

OK, since you raise cola consumption twice now and since I doubt you actually equate cola consumption with the death penalty, are you suggesting that the policies/behavoirs of others are completely irrelevant?

 

[BPSCG]

As Crimresearch has pointed out, Capital Punishment cannot Punish.

I bet you're wrong:

 

[AWPrime]

The options of this poll were just to limited.

Why wasn't there an option of forcing him to be an experimental subject for the rest of his life.

Then we can use him to study what it will take to get men pregnant.


yes, I have a special kind of evil.

 

[Luke T.]

OK, since you raise cola consumption twice now and since I doubt you actually equate cola consumption with the death penalty, are you suggesting that the policies/behavoirs of others are completely irrelevant?

I've never understood the point behind using a single similarity between one country and another to justify removing that similarity. It carries the implication that the single similarity makes one country just like another country somehow.

It would be like saying "Hitler liked dogs. Let's not be like him."
It makes no sense.

 

[Ed]

The options of this poll were just to limited.


Then we can use him to study what it will take to get men pregnant.

That was implicit in the "Life" option.

 

[Luke T.]

On another board which shall remain nameless (*cough*) someone posted a list of countries that have abolished the death penalty. Among them were Cambodia, Angola and Romania. We should be more like them, eh?

 

[BPSCG]

On another board which shall remain nameless (*cough*) someone posted a list of countries that have abolished the death penalty. Among them were Cambodia, Angola and Romania. We should be more like them, eh?

No, we should be more like Canada, eh.

 

[Roadtoad]

Peterson has been convicted, and the jurors have recommended that he gets the death penalty. This recommendation is apparently because he was a cold fish.

Is that fair? Should that recommendation be overturned?

Just thought I'd mention that in prison, (and I've delivered a hell of a lot of loads into California prisons), Scott Peterson is at or near the bottom of the barrel. Any person who kills a child, (and as far as those cons are concerned, Conor Peterson was a child), will likely get whacked if they're in the general population.

If Peterson were in the general population, it's entirely likely he'd literally be beaten to death by a bunch of very pissed-off convicts, many of whom would dearly love to see their own kids but can't because they're behind bars. From what I've heard from guards I've known, someone will tip the guards off that they won't want to be in a certain area at a certain time. They'll be absent when Peterson steps into the shower, or is isolated in some corner of the prison. In all likelihood, he'd be dead within the first three years.

With a Death sentence, Claus, Scott Peterson will at least have a chance to stay alive through those first three years, and eventually be forgotten. Personally, I think Judge Delucchi is counting on the sentence being overturned sometime in the future.

I've been inside the walls of San Quentin. I delived and picked up a lot of loads from the Prison Industry Authority. Peterson is a hell of a lot safer on Death Row.

 

[peptoabysmal]

Which is yet another reason why the death penalty should be abolished. The jury convicts him because he is not crying his eyes out? What about convicting him based on the evidence?

"Hey, this guy does not show remorse! Let him ride the lightning!"

Peterson's attorney may have advised Peterson to not show any emotion in court. It is a common practice for defense attorney to give this advice. D'oh!

A better bet is that the jury probably did convict Peterson on a plethora of circumstantial evidence (which is acceptable in US court) and the reporters coaxed the jurors into answering questions about how much emotion Scott showed and then did a little creative editing. I don't think there's been any legal wrongdoing, nor have I heard any criminal law experts speak out against the proceedings yet.

Besides, it wasn't only circumstantial evidence, just a lot of it compared to the scientific evidence, but there was scientific evidence. E.g.; there was some hair found in a pair of pliers on Scott's boat that was linked to Lacy by mitochondrial DNA.

 

[da bear]

No, we should be more like Canada, eh.

Well considering that you have a significantly higher murder rate per capita than us, as well as a large number of other countries without the DP, it might not be a bad idea.

Facts

I realize that the stats there aren't broken down into your individual states, and that Japan is at the bottom of the list. I suspect that there are other reasons besides the DP that would explain why Japan's murder rates are lower, but admit that I haven't posted evidence that would support that theory, so......

 

[varwoche]

someone posted a list of countries that have abolished the death penalty. Among them were Cambodia, Angola and Romania. We should be more like them, eh?

Pardon my prior misunderstanding; I thought you dismissed the policies of other countries as irrelevant. You may enjoy these facts...

If we subtract nations that only have DP for crimes committed during war, and subtract nations that are abolitionist in practice (no executions in over 10 yrs), we are left with 84 nations, distributed like so:

Far East: 5
Southeast Asia: 9
Central Asia: 5
Africa: 32
Persian Gulf: 9
Mid-East: 5
Former Soviet: 4
E Europe: 0
W Europe: 0
North America: 3
South America: 1
Caribbean: 10

Another interesting count:

Democratic, first-world countries with DP: 3-4
(USA, Japan, Singapore, S Korea)
article

 

[nightwind]

Peterson

The jurors had to use other criteria such as how he looked, acted, etc in order to reach the verdict, because if they had went by the evidence they couldn't have found him guilty. And there was no way they were going to let him go. They know that they would have been demonized, etc.

The jury doesn't seem like a very sophisticated jury to me.

I sure would hate to know that my life would hinge on what people called "strawberry shortcake" think. Good grief. This is really scary.

But there is a lesson to be learned here. If you are going to cheat on your wife, especially if she is pregnant, you better hope to God that she is not murdered, or you are toast.

 

[seayakin]

I bet you're wrong:

Crimresearch cited this web site which states

"Punishment, on the other hand, weakens a behavior because a negative condition is introduced or experienced as a consequence of the behavior."

Based on this definition, if you kill someone as a punishment, you cannot weaken a given behavior because there is not behavior (except maybe rotting) which occurs after death.

 

[BPSCG]

"Punishment, on the other hand, weakens a behavior because a negative condition is introduced or experienced as a consequence of the behavior."

Based on this definition, if you kill someone as a punishment, you cannot weaken a given behavior because there is not behavior (except maybe rotting) which occurs after death.

While I'll readily agree that chopping apart a dead body is not punishment, I submit to you that what precedes it in the process known as drawing and quartering certainly qualifies:

The statutory punishment for treason in England from 1283 to 1867, D&Q was a multimedia form of execution. First the prisoner was drawn to the place of execution on a hurdle, a type of sledge. (Originally he was merely dragged behind a horse.) Then he was hanged. Cut down while still alive, he was disembowelled and his entrails burned before his eyes. (Some references, such as the Encyclopedia Britannica, say this step, and not dragging behind a horse, is what is meant by "drawn," but actual sentences of execution don't support this view.)

Finally the condemned was beheaded and his body cut into quarters, one arm or leg to a quarter. How exactly the quartering was to be accomplished was not always specified, but on at least some occasions horses were hitched to each of the victim's limbs and spurred in four directions. An assistant with a sword or cleaver was sometimes assigned to make a starter cut and ease the strain on the animals.

Link (don't argue with Cecil Adams).

Read that first paragraph in the quote again and tell me whether you think that qualifies as punishment. If not, then tell me what it is.

 

[crimresearch]

Good luck getting funding for your operant conditioning experiments involving *that* procedure.

 

[Beleth]

It doesn't matter how you evaluate the cause - what matters is how these people evaluate it.

If martyrdom is in the eye of the beholder, then isn't any punishment possible cause for someone to be deemed a martyr? I mean, heck, there are people in the Mideast who consider blowing themselves up an act of martyrdom. I certainly don't (IMO you have to be hurt by your enemy to be considered a martyr), but they do.

My point is this. Since the definition of "martyr" is so subjective, arguing against capital punishment because it might turn someone into a martyr is not convincing.

Hey, you are the one bringing up a time limit. If you don't want to argue it anymore, just say so.

No, I'm not. You're arguing that McVeigh is a martyr, not because someone has taken up his cause between the time he was executed and the present, but because at some possible time in the unknown future, someone might. That's why I called it the Nostradamus defense - his predictions have from now until the end of time to come true, just like yours does.

Peterson has been convicted, and the jurors have recommended that he gets the death penalty. This recommendation is apparently because he was a cold fish.

Is that fair? Should that recommendation be overturned?

I have no reason to think that it is not fair, because as I have said, the jurors know more about the circumstances surrounding the case than I do. And recommendations don't get "overturned", they get accepted or rejected. Should the recommendation be rejected? I have already answered that question in an earlier post.