Split Thread Scorpion's Spiritualism

[Scorpion]

So, after receiving the information from spirits, you can be as sure about anything as you were before then, right?

I think we have to read between the lines and work out what is true for ourselves.

 

[Scorpion]

Hmm... seems it is not only the Angels of Karma that can see into the future.....

Yes, I am becoming predictable in my old age. I had a revelationary dream last night which put me back on track. See my thread 'dream interpretation' in the members forum.

 

[Matthew Ellard]

God and the angels know what is going to happen when we act according to our limitations, but they do not intervene to save us from our mistakes. They simply guide the process of our karma to give us the motivations and opportunities to change our ways.

So God proactively killed all the innocent children, on the entire planet, in the biblical flood, for no reason, to motivate us?

Do you think that was a good thing or a bad thing?

 

[curious cat]

I think we have to read between the lines and work out what is true for ourselves.

Can't we do it without the spirits then?

 

[P.J. Denyer]

I have decided it is not contradictory that God and the angels can see the future and that we still have free will.

Well great, that's thousands of years of theological arguement resolved...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predestination

 

[Scorpion]

So God proactively killed all the innocent children, on the entire planet, in the biblical flood, for no reason, to motivate us?

Do you think that was a good thing or a bad thing?

I don't believe in the bibles story of the flood. I think most of the bible was made up by Jewish scribes to promote their tribe.

 

[Scorpion]

Can't we do it without the spirits then?

I think most of us do live out our lives without direct guidance from the spirits, and it is up to us what we come to believe in.

 

[Darat]

I have decided it is not contradictory that God and the angels can see the future and that we still have free will. God and the angels know what is going to happen when we act according to our limitations, but they do not intervene to save us from our mistakes. They simply guide the process of our karma to give us the motivations and opportunities to change our ways.



I may have difficulties winning such a debate as I am not the sharpest knife in the box, which is something I said in the opening post. But when I reflect on it I realize that if I am right and all of you atheists are wrong then our deaths will prove it to us all. When we are all dead and we wake up in the spirit world, I will have the last laugh.

How will you know. Remember you changed your mind a little bit back to say we don't remember our past lives when we die...

 

[Darat]

Yes, I am becoming predictable in my old age. I had a revelationary dream last night which put me back on track. See my thread 'dream interpretation' in the members forum.

Yep, reset it was. Utterly predictable as it is utterly a lack of rationality.

 

[steenkh]

I have decided it is not contradictory that God and the angels can see the future and that we still have free will.

I see. You decided that the contradiction is resolved when you decide that there is no contradiction! Brilliant.

Are there any other contradictions you would like to resolve in the same way while you are at it?

 

[Scorpion]

How will you know. Remember you changed your mind a little bit back to say we don't remember our past lives when we die...

I did not say we do not remember our last incarnation. We obviously remember that. I was saying we do not normally remember earlier previous incarnations until we complete our cycle of lives.

 

[Nay_Sayer]

I have decided it is not contradictory that God and the angels can see the future and that we still have free will. God and the angels know what is going to happen when we act according to our limitations, but they do not intervene to save us from our mistakes. They simply guide the process of our karma to give us the motivations and opportunities to change our ways.

I may have difficulties winning such a debate as I am not the sharpest knife in the box, which is something I said in the opening post. But when I reflect on it I realize that if I am right and all of you atheists are wrong then our deaths will prove it to us all. When we are all dead and we wake up in the spirit world, I will have the last laugh.

Scorpion you've shown you're capable of a far more mature response.

Don't be so ready to portray the chess-playing pigeon, take a moment to understand your critic's position, Otherwise I will do the like and simply claim I am right and your wrong because Zeus came to me personally and said: "Pay no mind to that nutbar Scorpion".

 

[JayUtah]

I have decided it is not contradictory that God and the angels can see the future and that we still have free will.

No. You can't simply "decide" that a contradiction is non-contradictory. You stated two blatantly contradictory claims and you refuse to back away from either of them.

They simply guide the process of our karma to give us the motivations and opportunities to change our ways.

That's not "ruling."

I may have difficulties winning such a debate as I am not the sharpest knife in the box, which is something I said in the opening post. But when I reflect on it I realize that if I am right and all of you atheists are wrong...

This is just ego-soothing. It's not a matter of being a sharp tool. It's a matter of being an honest tool. You can't be honest enough with yourself to let the atheists win. Now you're just fantasizing about winning the debate.

 

[JayUtah]

I don't believe in the bibles story of the flood. I think most of the bible was made up by Jewish scribes to promote their tribe.

I mostly agree. Now why can't you see that all the "spirit" mumbo jumbo you fervently believe in falls into the same category? You've been shown tons of evidence that your spiritualist religion is obviously made up. You've been shown how it contradicts itself at every step. You've just somehow "decided" that omnipotent gods and free will can coexist. You've admitted you can't make it work, but that you hope that sometime in the future -- somehow -- all those pesky atheists will get their come-uppance and you'll somehow emerge victorious.

It really does you no good to bad-mouth other religions when you're so poor at your own, for the same reasons you use to tar others. When you're ready to approach the question with less ego, there may be some hope for you.

 

[JayUtah]

I think most of us do live out our lives without direct guidance from the spirits...

But you turn that into a judgment on a person's character. If someone isn't in tune with the spirit world, they're somehow not as "evolved" as others. Just like so many other religions, yours is just a bunch of made-proclamations aimed at helping its followers believe they're better than other people.

...and it is up to us what we come to believe in.

And I choose not to believe in obviously made-up "spiritualist" nonsense. Stop insinuating that makes me some sort of an inferior person.

 

[Scorpion]

As far as I can see an all knowing all seeing God still allows us to work things out for ourselves. We can act according to our own will, but we will reap the consequences.
If I am right and the angels have no choice but to obey God because his presence is obvious to them. Then that is the whole purpose of our incarnating into this world. It is so that we can work things out for ourselves without interference, and choose our own fate.
If, like the angels we never incarnated we would never be tried and tested.

 

[Scorpion]

Stop insinuating that makes me some sort of an inferior person.

I don't think that, I think you are clearly more intelligent than me, and almost certainly better educated.. But I am on a different life lesson to you.

 

[JayUtah]

Yep, reset it was. Utterly predictable as it is utterly a lack of rationality.

Yup. "I had a miraculous dream last night, and therefore all the logical contradictions in my claims are suddenly no longer a problem." In my experience one cannot simply "decide" that he has solved a problem that has vexed theology for centuries without, you know, giving the solution.

 

[JayUtah]

I don't think that, I think you are clearly more intelligent than me, and almost certainly better educated.. But I am on a different life lesson to you.

Yes, and you keep insinuating that this "lesson" is better than anything the atheists can deploy. Or do you expect us to simply forget all the times you rail against the alleged shortcomings and infirmities of science? The boasts of having stumped a philosophy class? Your assumptions in your nature vs. nurture thread that the irreligious respected morality less than the religious.

Lose the ego.

 

[JayUtah]

If I am right and the angels have no choice but to obey God...

You said the angels of karma "rule" over the process of reincarnation. You said, for example, that they arrange for evil people to be paired up with people who need evil perpetrated on them in order to work off their karma, and that this is somehow a good thing. Now you're telling me that the angels don't "rule" at all, but are simply constrained to obey yet another higher power. This does not fix your argument. Inventing yet another omniscient, omnipotent power in place of the ones you now realize can't do what you claim they do simply incurs the same problem one floor up.

Fix your problem; don't just dance around it.