• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Scientology UK e-petition

Hi RRB Good to see you posting here.

There was something on the "Operation Clambake" site about co$ obtaining its charitable exemption as it's registered overseas as a charity ...in fact its overseas "office" is in a house in suburban South Australia! ... however, the co$ shell company is not recognized as a charity in Australia.. There are calls to have this claim investigated by both the UK and Aust authorities.

Trying to get a straight answer from co$ is impossible .. same with the truth..



....The venusian traindriver also says "hello"
 
Hi RolandRB

Welcome to the forum, and thankyou for the post.

Signed the petition.
 
I agree. And having done a little research on the subject, I have no problem with Scientology being classified as a religion.

YOu can classifiy it as a cruciform vegetable for all I care. However for it to be classified as a religion for tax purposes we should look at the reasons and rationales for giving tax breaks to religions. These are primarily in recognition of charitable work. I don't see evidence of scientology doing any such thing.
 
I am sorry, but if this petition was against *ALL* religion getting a tax break i would sign. I do not see a reason to single out one single bad religion among all otehr bad religion.

Scientology is neither charity or religion in the UK. Furthermore, the petition description only uses Scientology as an example - the actual wording is:

"We ask the Government to amend the Local Government Finance Act to prevent large organisations from qualifying for rates relief unless they are UK registered charities, approved by the Charity Commissioners."

This is explicitly worded to apply to any and all large organisations that are not Charity Commissioner approved UK registered charities.
 
YOu can classifiy it as a cruciform vegetable for all I care. However for it to be classified as a religion for tax purposes we should look at the reasons and rationales for giving tax breaks to religions. These are primarily in recognition of charitable work. I don't see evidence of scientology doing any such thing.
They do do what they consider to be charitable work. We wouldn't define it as such, but they do.
 
YOu can classifiy it as a cruciform vegetable for all I care. However for it to be classified as a religion for tax purposes we should look at the reasons and rationales for giving tax breaks to religions. These are primarily in recognition of charitable work. I don't see evidence of scientology doing any such thing.

Not really. The reason is history. Religious lands being tax exempt goes back to ancient egypt. It is just a modern rationalization of the historic president.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
 
They do do what they consider to be charitable work. We wouldn't define it as such, but they do.

That is the problem though. By giving religions tax exempt status you have to arbitrate what is a religion vs a tax dodge.

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk
 
And what the charities commission say is pretty clear on the matter of their status,
http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Library/start/cosfulldoc.pdf


The Commissioners having considered the full legal and factual case and supporting documents (including expert evidence) which had been put to them by CoS and having considered and reviewed the relevant law, taking into account the principles embodied in the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR), the Commissioners concluded that CoS is not established as a charity and accordingly is not registrable as such. In so determining the Commissioners concluded as follows -:

CoS is not charitable as an organisation established for the advancement of religion because having regard to the relevant law and evidence:
(a) Scientology is not a religion for the purposes of English charity law. That
religion for the purposes of charity law constitutes belief in a supreme being
and worship of that being (section 6, pages 12 to 25). That it is accepted that Scientology believes in a supreme being (section 6, page 25). However, the core practices of Scientology, being auditing and training, do not constitute worship as they do not display the essential characteristic of reverence or veneration for a supreme being (section 6, pages 25 to 26).
(b) That even were CoS otherwise established for the advancement of religion, public benefit should not be presumed given the relative newness of
Scientology and public and judicial concern expressed – ie the presumption of
public benefit available to religious organisations as charities was rebutted
(section 8, pages 40 to 43); and that
(c) Public benefit arising from the practice of Scientology and/or the purposes of CoS had not been established (section 8, pages 43 to 44 and pages 47 to 48).

CoS is not charitable as an organisation established to promote the moral or spiritual welfare or improvement of the community because having regard to the relevant law and evidence:
(a) The practice of Scientology and the purposes of CoS are not analogous to the legal authorities establishing the moral or spiritual welfare or improvement of the community as a charitable purpose (section 7, pages 26 to 29), and in taking a broader view of the authorities, would not be likely to achieve such a purpose (section 7, pages 30 to 37).
(b) That even were CoS otherwise established for the promotion of the moral or spiritual welfare or improvement of the community, public benefit arising out of the practice of Scientology and/or the purposes of CoS had not been
established (section 8, pages 45 to 47 and page 49).
 
Hi RRB Good to see you posting here.

There was something on the "Operation Clambake" site about co$ obtaining its charitable exemption as it's registered overseas as a charity ...in fact its overseas "office" is in a house in suburban South Australia! ... however, the co$ shell company is not recognized as a charity in Australia.. There are calls to have this claim investigated by both the UK and Aust authorities.

Trying to get a straight answer from co$ is impossible .. same with the truth..



....The venusian traindriver also says "hello"

It might not be recognised as a charity in Australia but it is recognised as a religion and is therefore entitled to the benefits of being considered a religion.
 
Well, fair enough. I'd much rather expend effort in trying to end tax exempt status for all religions though.
By no means does one activity exclude the other. I see this as a step towards that end. Feed them tha salami one slice at a time.

Mind you I have no problems with religions qualifying for tax exempt status as a not for profit or through alturistic activities beyond missionary work.
 
Mind you I have no problems with religions qualifying for tax exempt status as a not for profit or through alturistic activities beyond missionary work.
Indeed - it's the charitable activities that can be tax-exempt, not simply everything that the religion does.
 
I understand that for charities. I don't have a problem with "feeding the poor" gets a tax break.

What I don't get is what religion has to do with it. If an organization is religous but doesn't do any charity work, does it still get a tax break?
From your answer it seems the answer is "yes". Why?

"yes". It is because it used to be the case that "advancement of religion" was considered to be charitable and "for the public benefit". No need to give the unwashed poor a bowl of soup or a shelter. Getting them to go down on the knees and pray to God was considered an act of charity as well because it saved their souls and made them better people. See the four "heads of charity" and Pemsel.
 
"yes". It is because it used to be the case that "advancement of religion" was considered to be charitable and "for the public benefit". No need to give the unwashed poor a bowl of soup or a shelter. Getting them to go down on the knees and pray to God was considered an act of charity as well because it saved their souls and made them better people. See the four "heads of charity" and Pemsel.

I thought I would add that in England "religion" has to be of a certain type to be "charitable". It has to be theistic or otherwise slanted towards an abnegation of self. The idea is that you live a less selfish life and recognise a higher purpose. The Charity Commission in the UK decided that Scientology did not fit in with that and was one of the reasons they were refused charitable status by them.
 
Anti-scientology activism is a mixed bag. Out here, the protests a couple years ago served mainly to light a fire under local Scientologists' butts. Now they have a bigger and more accessible church building, and they've remodeled the testing center where they recruit people. A few people left the organization, some families were reunited, but I think it would have been better in the long run to ignore them.

The protests happened in the context of an economic downturn, which raises the possibility that, whatever reasons were given publicly, they were ultimately a kind of pogrom.
 

Back
Top Bottom