Scientology spokesman wants his money back

[Calculon]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/scientology/he-wants-his-money-back/1067720

Just posted online today, but the story has been expected for a while.
I met Larry a last year when he first announced in public that he had left scientology. This is something that scientology really wanted to keep under wraps as Larry is the narrator of their main PR/Introduction video called "Orientation".
This is the film that has Larry saying near the end in a completely serious deadpan,

"If you leave this room after seeing this film and walk out and never mention Scientology again, you are perfectly free to do so. It would be stupid. But you can do it. You can also dive off a bridge or blow your brains out. That is your choice."

People were wondering when Larry left, if scientology would re-edit the film or make a new one. (It is dated...Kirstie Alley and John Travolta are svelte, and Isaac Hayes is not dead). But almost a year after Larry officially left by telling Tommy Davis, I saw the film still playing at the Dianetics center in L.A.

 

[hgc]

A repayment is different. For someone who prepays, it is "a return of money without the service being taken.'' There is no time limit to seek a repayment.

The policy was among many the Internal Revenue Service reviewed before it granted the church tax exempt status in 1993. The church told the IRS its policy was "exceedingly fair'' and said a dissatisfied parishioner "simply has to make a proper request for his donations back, agree to forgo further services and his donations will be returned.''

Revoke tax exemption now.

Aside from that, is it another layer of idiocy, beyond paying for Scientology "services" in the first place, to prepay for them? And while we're at it, how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

 

[Calculon]

Scientologists are constantly pressured to donate, donate, donate, and pre-pay.

I bet most do so to avoid the inevitable questions as to why they don't give, which can escalate to outright accusations. I have spoken to ex-scientologists and the pressure on them to give is never ending.

To us, if we were constantly told to give money, we would respond in a manner that I can't repeat lest a mod alter my post. But those in the cult have come to accept it, even while hating it.

I honestly don't know how this money-grubbing aspect doesn't keep every new person away from scientology. It is so prominent from the get go...they want people to take courses or buy books from the first encounter.

But the tax thing is the key. It is why they still have large empty buildings...they don't have to pay proper property taxes on them. And when people pay huge amounts for auditing, books, DVDs, even schools...they get to take them as tax deductions. If they were not able to do so, people would not be able to spend as much on scientology.

 

[Calculon]

And when people pay huge amounts for auditing, books, DVDs, even schools...they get to take them as tax deductions. If they were not able to do so, people would not be able to spend as much on scientology.

I wanted to make a correction. Items like books and DVDs are not tax deductable.

 

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Revoke tax exemption now.

I'm not so sure. Any entity paying taxes has the right to expect things from the government in return. I'd rather Scientology not have any foot in the door.

~~ Paul

 

[Wowbagger]

I honestly don't know how this money-grubbing aspect doesn't keep every new person away from scientology. It is so prominent from the get go...they want people to take courses or buy books from the first encounter.

New recruits are lied to. Most of the time, they don't even know they are joining in Scientology at first, but a front-organization of a different name.

By the time they realize they are now involved in Scientology, they believe it is changing their lives, so they stick with it.

If the question of money-grubbing comes up, they are probably lied to again: Words are twisted to make it look like such a bargain.

 

[Soapy Sam]

Man sticks finger down dog's throat.
Dog bites hand off.
Man asks for hand back.
Dog farts.
Eventually, someone shoots dog.

 

[Kopji]

...In his 33 years in Scientology, Anderson estimates he spent nearly $150,000 on services, apart from the $119,711 that he says remains unused in his accounts.

Hard to say if the US government would care. It does supports the view that the organization has a dark side. 'Money in advance', means that you get something - either a product or a service, otherwise what is the difference from theft?

COS might be flirting with RICO (racketeering) laws, especially if it is found that ex-members have promised sex, (sorry I meant silence), or whatever, in return for getting their money back.

But they are saying that he got a tax break, and thanks for the donation.

Me, I'd already be working with the feds and trying to get my money returned as if they had stolen it.

 

[Calculon]

New recruits are lied to. Most of the time, they don't even know they are joining in Scientology at first, but a front-organization of a different name.

By the time they realize they are now involved in Scientology, they believe it is changing their lives, so they stick with it.

If the question of money-grubbing comes up, they are probably lied to again: Words are twisted to make it look like such a bargain.

I was mainly thinking of people that actually walk into a scientology or Dianetics center, or take a "stress test", rather than people who get tricked after taking acting courses, are in Narconon, take a W.I.S.E. management course, etc...

 

[arthwollipot]

Scientologists don't get their donations back. I've heard this claim several times, but according to the ex-Sci I interviewed, none of the approx half a million dollars he gave to the church in "donations" will ever be seen again.

 

[Calculon]

Scientologists don't get their donations back. I've heard this claim several times, but according to the ex-Sci I interviewed, none of the approx half a million dollars he gave to the church in "donations" will ever be seen again.

I guess as part of their IRS deal, scientology had to differentiate between donations and pre-payments...and pre-payments for services never rendered needed to be returned if requested. But any donations to the IAS (International Associations of Scientologists), to Ideal Org purchases and the like are gone gone gone.

 

[The True Scotsman]

I'm glad to see the guy from the story has become disillusioned with Scientology, but I don't know that he has a case. Like "Calculon" said, it would depend on whether the money was filed as a donation or a pre-payment. I tend to think, though, even in the event of a pre-payment, if a contract was signed and the terms of service were vaguely defined, then the Church of Scientology could claim it did, in fact, provide a service.

By the way, I'm new here, so...hi.

 

[Elizabeth I]

New recruits are lied to. Most of the time, they don't even know they are joining in Scientology at first, but a front-organization of a different name.

OMG, Scientology and Amway are the same organization?

 

[tsig]

I'm glad to see the guy from the story has become disillusioned with Scientology, but I don't know that he has a case. Like "Calculon" said, it would depend on whether the money was filed as a donation or a pre-payment. I tend to think, though, even in the event of a pre-payment, if a contract was signed and the terms of service were vaguely defined, then the Church of Scientology could claim it did, in fact, provide a service.

By the way, I'm new here, so...hi.

Hi, we're glad you've finally showed up since your brother "No-True" is named in almost every thread here.

Personally I'd just be glad i got away with my brain (almost) intact and I'd want no more contact of any kind with them. Until he can just walk away they are still controlling him.

 

[tsig]

OMG, Scientology and Amway are the same organization?

Of course not. One of them has a tax exemption.

 

[Calculon]

Hi, we're glad you've finally showed up since your brother "No-True" is named in almost every thread here.

Personally I'd just be glad i got away with my brain (almost) intact and I'd want no more contact of any kind with them. Until he can just walk away they are still controlling him.

I briefly met Larry last year. Scientology has known he was a possible "blow" for a few years and have not hired him for internal jobs for a bit...in case something like this happened. So he has probably been thinking about leaving for some time...and becoming more and more aware.

It sounded like part of his recovery is to have a little fun with them (scientology). For others leaving, they need to be away from the whole thing for a while. But he has been reading the critic's sites without actually posting on them...so this whole thing isn't completely sudden.

Some ex-scientologists go immediately from leaving the cult to protesting...and that probably isn't too healthy...but Larry seems to have been thinking about this for a while and have many friends who left before he did to count on.

 

[The True Scotsman]

From what I've heard about post-cult recovery is that a percentage of former members of cults, after spending sometime out of it, will turn to a new cult, while still others will become deeply entrenched in religion. It's good to hear that this guy is taking things slow and, as I can only assume, proceeding with a more skeptical outlook. I think the best thing for him to do at this point would be to study logic and familiarize himself with the logical fallacies and paradoxes, so that he can better defend against this sort of thing in the future.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

From what I've heard about post-cult recovery is that a percentage of former members of cults, after spending sometime out of it, will turn to a new cult, while still others will become deeply entrenched in religion. It's good to hear that this guy is taking things slow and, as I can only assume, proceeding with a more skeptical outlook. I think the best thing for him to do at this point would be to study logic and familiarize himself with the logical fallacies and paradoxes, so that he can better defend against this sort of thing in the future.

This is quite perceptive.

One of the seminal books I read in my youth was The_True_Believer^WP, by Eric Hoffer. In which he analyzes the need to believe . . . in what is mostly irrelevant. And how True Believers easily switch from one belief to another. He quotes Goebbels as saying that if he is given a Communist he can be converted to Nazism in a week.

For a recent view of this work:
http://web.archive.org/web/20080108123743/www.philosophynow.org/archive/articles/34madigan1.htm

Welcome aboard O True Scott and happy Robbie Burns Day. Have a hunk of haggis and a sip of malt on me.

 

[AgeGap]

"I want my money back."
"OK but if you talk to anybody about this you forfeit the right to your cash."
"I'm waiting for my cash, just pay up!"
"Why? It's not like you can go and complain to anyone or you forfeit."
"You _****"
"Cry more noob!"

Scientology is so full of win.

 

[hgc]

I'm not so sure. Any entity paying taxes has the right to expect things from the government in return. I'd rather Scientology not have any foot in the door.

~~ Paul

Such as?