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Scientology - OT Levels Changed?

kosai

Recently Audited Thetan Cluster
kosai
Joined
Aug 19, 2005
Messages
565
I think everyone here has read the 'spoiler' on the Xenu story, but I'm curious... In the BBC show Panorama, the reporter asked multiple people about the Xenu story and it was met with the handler saying the story is "silly" and "sounds like a movie" in front of celebrity members of the church. This seems like an odd thing to call your secret knowledge which you want to charge massive amounts of money for. Also, On Nightline they asked Miscavige about the Xenu Story, David immediately said that this was not a part of current or modern Scientology. So my question to those here who have studied Scientology more closely. In your opinion, is it possible the higher levels have been changed at all? What is the latest person to leave the church to claim this is the basis for levels OT3 and above?

I guess it's just hard for me to believe, if I was the leader of a church, that I would try to pass this story off to my followers especially after it's been so widely exposed (South Park, BBC, Online, etc.)

Please note, I am just interested in finding people who want to discuss this topic, I am not suggesting it has or has not changed in any way. If you've seen recent ex-member stories who were of level OT3 and above I'd love to read them.
 
I'm an ex-OT4 member.......

But I can't discuss that here.

I have no memories of the matter, in fact, I was possessed by Eric Cartman back in
the early nineties.........ruined my beliefs! ;)
 
I was thinking that that would be one of the advantages of maintaining "secret" teachings that followers had to pony up big bucks to learn -- you'd be free to change them any time.
If (for instance) they were inadvertently revealed on a widely-viewed cartoon show, and the public couldn't hear the word "Scientology" without snickering, you could just dump that nonsense and whip up a batch of new, improved nonsense.
 
kosai said:
I think everyone here has read the 'spoiler' on the Xenu story, but I'm curious... In the BBC show Panorama, the reporter asked multiple people about the Xenu story and it was met with the handler saying the story is "silly" and "sounds like a movie" in front of celebrity members of the church. This seems like an odd thing to call your secret knowledge which you want to charge massive amounts of money for. Also, On Nightline they asked Miscavige about the Xenu Story, David immediately said that this was not a part of current or modern Scientology. So my question to those here who have studied Scientology more closely. In your opinion, is it possible the higher levels have been changed at all?
Click to expand...

David Miscavige did modify the structure and other elements of the higher levels yes. Exact detials of modifications are uncertian.
 
Most people who deny knowledge of the Xenu story are being honest.....they don't know about it. You don't get that info until you reach the 'Wall of Fire' at OT3.

Beyond that, I believe it is the Xenu story, more specifically the R6 implant part of the story, that is supposed to kill anyone who learns it's truth before being given the necessary 'tech' to survive it. If you can find them, Ron's 'Philadelphia Lectures' contain his claim that he was the first to discover this material and live through it, and he claims to have almost died in the process.:rolleyes:

Therefore, even those who know about it are supposed to keep it a secret, conveniently as a 'safety precaution'. While Miscavige has been accused of changing certain things, the fact that Scientologists deny the Xenu story doesn't indicate that it's no longer part of Scientology. Merely that some don't know about it, and others are supposed to lie about it.

Miscavige was a full-on Rondroid who, by most accounts, fully believes in the 'tech' and that it can't be changed.
 
Btodd said:
Most people who deny knowledge of the Xenu story are being honest.....they don't know about it. You don't get that info until you reach the 'Wall of Fire' at OT3.

Beyond that, I believe it is the Xenu story, more specifically the R6 implant part of the story, that is supposed to kill anyone who learns it's truth before being given the necessary 'tech' to survive it. If you can find them, Ron's 'Philadelphia Lectures' contain his claim that he was the first to discover this material and live through it, and he claims to have almost died in the process.:rolleyes:

Therefore, even those who know about it are supposed to keep it a secret, conveniently as a 'safety precaution'. While Miscavige has been accused of changing certain things, the fact that Scientologists deny the Xenu story doesn't indicate that it's no longer part of Scientology. Merely that some don't know about it, and others are supposed to lie about it.

Miscavige was a full-on Rondroid who, by most accounts, fully believes in the 'tech' and that it can't be changed.
Click to expand...

So one of the possible explanations for this is that Miscavige has not reached OT3 and thus has not yet been told about Xenu?

You know that makes as much sense as anything LRH ever wrote -- with the exception of Typewriter in the Sky which I rather enjoyed. :D
 
Gord_in_Toronto said:
So one of the possible explanations for this is that Miscavige has not reached OT3 and thus has not yet been told about Xenu?

You know that makes as much sense as anything LRH ever wrote -- with the exception of Typewriter in the Sky which I rather enjoyed. :D
Click to expand...

It would be possible, except that he's OT8 (unless the elusive OT9 level has been secretly released, since it's been promised for years).

The explanation for why Miscavige says it's untrue is because he's lying. Even if he believes in it, he knows how it would be perceived if openly admitted, and is no stranger to lying for 'the greater good'. He learned that principle from one hell of a teacher. But it's impossible for him not to know about it, since there are audio recordings of L Ron talking about it, along with the actual writings themselves (one of which has the original incarnation of 'Xemu', which later traded for an 'n')....it's impossible for Miscavige to be unfamiliar with any of these, since he undoubtedly has heard and read everything L Ron has ever said.

By the way, there is a long-standing rumor that Tom Cruise completely flipped out after reaching OT3 and hearing the Xenu story, even hints that he might have tried to leave for a brief time. I still doubt that he had the privilege of running around a flagpole at the RPF, though. No Lisa McPherson-style rehabilitation, either.:mad:
 
With the advent of the internet and the OT III story, you have to think that some of the cultists would start to wonder about the R6.

Millions of folk know the Xenu story, and we are alive and well.

Of course, when in the cult, you can't read anything that is against the cult.

go figure.

Fawkes_Banner_01.gif
 
Btodd, I think I'm convinced that you are correct. They are simply lying and they do believe in that crazy story. The reasons I can see against them re-doing the OT levels would be because it would be like changing a language in one generation, there is already many "speakers" of the "Xenu-OT levels" and they would have to learn there is a new "track" that they wouldn't know, it would be too suspect. Therefore, I think it would be extremely difficult to make a switch. They have a lame story, but I think they are stuck with it. However, I know there has been some changes in OT levels higher than the xenu story made by Miscavige which he has termed "The Golden Age of Tech." Many former members became pissed and left the church when that change happened due to extra money needed since they would need more training.

Big Les, thanks for the link, I'm going to watch these now.
 
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I'm still watching them now, and my brain is misting over. Miss Cabbage is strangely hypnotic, but like Maverick, uses a hell of a lot of words to say very little.

It's management consultancy meets pyramid scheme meets Heaven's Gate.
 
Man, that is A LOT of Scientology newspeak. For those who would like a summary. I believe the point is...

A lot of what you've read in Scientology so far didn't make much sense, not because it's bunk, not because you are too dumb to get it, not because it was written by a schizophrenic, not because it's a lot of words that add up to nothing, not because your religion is a self help pyramid scam cult with a sci-fi twist at the ending... No, the reason you don't get it is because...

We copied what L Ron said down incorrectly.

Now you can own his lectures directly on hundreds of CDs. Please directly proceed to opening up your wallets. Goodnight.
 
A general question about Scientology.

About a year ago the Pittsburgh, PA newpaper had an article about Scientology in which they claimed there was no currently active Scientology group in that city. It stuck me as odd that a city of that size would not have a great deal of activity. So my question is whether Scientology is a
large, growing religion or it is quite small with an ability to project a much larger image? Does anyone have data on this (other than any of the church's numbers)?
 
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From what I've heard, the number is closer to 100,000 than 8 million.

The Church won't ever produce anything to verify that claim, just like their claims about an 80% success rate with Narconon getting people off drugs, which is equally bogus.

We're supposed to hear it and go, "Wow, REALLY?":D
 
I'm pretty sure they base their membership claim on the number of copies of Dianetics sold. And because they revise the book frequently, selling it repeatedly to the same suckers, this number is greatly inflated.
 
I heard at one point, they were inflating the numbers by swarming the stores, buying all the copies, then boxing them up and selling them to the stores again and again.
 
kosai said:
We copied what L Ron said down incorrectly.

Now you can own his lectures directly on hundreds of CDs. Please directly proceed to opening up your wallets. Goodnight.
Click to expand...

I think it might be more accurate to change the 'we' to 'they' copied it wrong. The transcriptionists didn't know what "LRH" meant. Only Dianetics was actually typed up by L. Ron; the other books dictated. Also, on top of it, editors screwed up and omitted chapters. They also, to save on paper, removed a lot of paragraph breaks.

And now, complete with scientific analysis that provides the clearest presentation, the ultimate editions of Scientology books.

Personally, I'd be pissed that all that money was spent on defective books because L. Ron couldn't be bothered to proof read his books, and on top of it, have to spend even more money to buy the same books I'd bought.

The CDs of new, never released audio recordings of lectures about those aforementioned books seem to be the only thing worthwhile. (Relatively speaking, which is to say still worthless.)

I might be going out on a limb here, but it sounds to me like a way to retool the "tech" and polish it for a bit more mind-sucking brainwashing while making even more money at it. It also is a convenient way to explain why folks aren't able to actually manipulate "MEST" the way they'd like.
 
bokonon said:
I heard at one point, they were inflating the numbers by swarming the stores, buying all the copies, then boxing them up and selling them to the stores again and again.
Click to expand...

The inside front cover of mass market (strippable) books have a warning that begins: The sale of this book without its cover is unauthorized.
CoS members used to dig paperback copies of Hubbard's books out of the trash and try to re-sell them. Never mind that he wouldn't get paid for a stripped book. :D
 
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