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Science, Religion And The Bible

If I provide a time consuming set of reasons for there being good scientific evidence of a flood, which from the start bores me to tears and I couldn't possibly care less about, only so some idiot who knows nothing about science and nothing about the Bible can respond to it saying "David Henson knows absolutely nothing about science, I suggest you ignore him."
Not many people would care about such an idiot. And we can only know what would happen IF you provide reasons for there being good scientific evidence of a flood. Perhaps you think that you have. You have not.

I have read the thread you started on the subject. I took notes. Some of your posts were perhaps time consuming. You provided 63 posts in a 12-page thread. But you did not provide one single shred of (even questionable) evidence for a global flood.

You provided some interpretation on the flood story. You provided an abundance of quotes and information about some matters of history. You questioned the accuracy of some scientific procedures (such as radiocarbon dating). You asked questions about the thermosphere and mountain creation.

But you did not, in the entire thread, provide a single piece of evidence of a global flood.

Here are my notes (I used “off topic” for any off topic, irrelevant, or inconsequential posts):

POST 7: Addresses questions about water volume and area. REPLY: 22 ft., global

POST 19: Addresses questions about how animals survived, what they ate, how they traveled back to their native lands. REPLY: Ark needed to contain only 43 kinds of mammals, 74 kinds of birds, and 10 kinds of reptiles. 1650 species. Ark had enough room and food.

POST 25: Addresses statement about Gilgamesh. REPLY: Biblical flood was 2370 BC. Gilgamesh (Akkadian versions) written 1900 BC.

POST 37: Comment about skeptical dogma.

POST 39: Addresses where water came from and went. REPLY: Canopy of water vapor that surrounded the earth. Water stayed on earth.

POST 48: Comment about poster.

POST 52: Addresses evidence that would disprove flood. REPLY: None. Would have to transcend the boundaries of the skeptical arena.

POST 118: Addresses no sign of flood on pyramids, Egyptians before and after flood. RELPY: Egyptian civilization began after flood (2370 BC) based on evidence that some dates related to ancient Egyptian history may not be precise.

POST 121: Addresses historical dates. REPLY: Difference between cardinal and ordinal numbers. No zero year. Some historical dates. Some more historical dates (appear to be unrelated to claim in post 118 that Egyptian civilization began after 2370 BC). Evidence of Exodus. Evidence about dates related to King Herod. Information about Egyptian dynasties. Information about Gregorian and Julian calendars.

POST 129: Addresses radiocarbon dating of Egyptian artifacts and architecture. REPLY: What are the results and what are the margins of error?

POST 130: Addresses that flood was local and was written as “world” due to writer’s not knowing extent of whole world. REPLY: You can’t do that. It doesn’t fit.

POST 131: Addresses discarding known, proven dates in history. REPLY: Facts were provided. No evidence provided to prove facts wrong.

POST 134: Addresses concerns of copy and paste. REPLY: Copied from own post on other site.

POST 136: Addresses link to wiki Egyptian history. REPLY: Write your own stuff. Don’t have time to read wiki articles.

POST 138: Addresses claim material taken from Watchtower. REPLY: Was not.

POST 141: Off topic (Is God good?)

POST 142: Off topic.

POST 145: Addresses question of date of Egyptian civilization. REPLY: Evidence already provided.

POST 148: Addresses question of date of Egyptian civilization. REPLY: Evidence already provided.

POST 203: Addresses comparison to Star Trek mythology. RELPY: Science dismisses Bible based on bias/belief.

POST 232: Addresses how Nephilim in Genesis survived to be mentioned in Numbers. REPLY: Nephilim did perish in flood. Account in Numbers falsely claimed “Nephilim” to cause fear.

POST 234: Bible chronology.

POST 244: Off topic.

POST 254: Addresses 10 reptile kinds evolving/turning into 8000 species. REPLY: Asks for reference. Human footprints in dinosaur footprints (debunked). Don’t know if dinosaurs existed when humans did. Bible mentions behemoth.

POST 271: Addresses suggestion to learn more about science. REPLY: I asked for questions and just got good posts, good questions, wikipedia links, and graphs. No response to radiocarbon objections. Evidence about evolution and mutations.

POST 273: Off topic.

POST 311: Off topic (Star of Bethlehem).

POST 315:Addresses Bible or Science as truth. REPLY: Start this thread.

POST 327: Will answer all unanswered questions.

POST 328: Addresses questions about water volume and area. REPLY: 22 ft., global. (same as POST 7).

POST 330: Addresses flood as fiction. REPLY: Asks for evidence Bible flood is fiction. Skeptics/Atheists have preconceived notions and ignore evidence. Asks for evidence science has on Biblical deluge.

POST 335: Addresses water covering earth. REPLY: Earth could have been flatter with lower mountains. Evidence that over millions of years some places on earth that were once flat now have mountains.

POST 336: Question about Gilgamesh reference.

POST 337: Addresses question about flat earth. REPLY: Asks for evidence that it is not possible. Again gives evidence that over millions of years some places on earth that were once flat now have mountains. Information on sea levels (not relevant).

POST 338: Off topic.

POST 340: Addresses that flood was only 20 feet. REPLY: Flatter earth. Again gives evidence that over millions of years some places on earth that were once flat now have mountains. Information on sea levels (not relevant).

POST 342: Off topic.

POST 343: Addresses mountains rising thousands of feet in a few hundred years. REPLY: Asks why mountains would have had to rise thousands of feet in a few hundred years.

POST 346: Specifies thread is about Bible flood.

POST 359: Addresses when flood occurred. REPLY: 2370 BC. Questions accuracy of scientific methods of dating millions of years.

POST 367: Address elevation in Colorado. REPLY: 300-6800 feet. May have been much lower at time of flood.

POST 370: Addresses how host-specific diseases would have survived flood. REPLY: Asks how host-specific diseases normally survive.

POST 374: Address how flood of 22 feet could have flooded area at 300 feet. REPLY: Asks if there has to be 300 feet of floodwater to flood an area at 300 feet.

POST 390: Off topic.

POST 391: Addresses reply that how host-specific diseases survive in their specific hosts. REPLY: Asks why ask how they would survive.

POST 400: Addresses that world could not have been flatter at time of flood because of how mountains form. REPLY: Asks how mountains form.

POST 401: Addresses question about how fast tectonic plates move. REPLY: Asks why the question is relevant.

POST 405: Addresses eridu genesis. REPLY Asks when oldest flood account and Bible account were written.

POST 406: Addresses that thermosphere is practically a vacuum. REPLY: Asks if thermosphere has air or gasses.

POST 411: Addresses explanation of how mountains are formed. REPLY: Asks how glaciers affect the earth and how the effects are distinguishable from a local flood. Mentions that dinosaur fossils are often recovered from water-laid sedimentary rock.

POST 412: Addresses that thermosphere is essentially a vacuum. REPLY: Asks if thermosphere has gas, air, dust, or debris.

POST 419: Addresses link to how mountains are formed. REPLY: Says wrote own info on history, but only gets link on how mountains are formed.

POST 421: Addresses that thermosphere doesn’t have enough gas, dust and debris to cause a flood. REPLY: Agrees there isn’t enough now. Asks why Moses and Peter would have said that there were.

POST423: Off topic.

POST 425: Addresses that thermosphere doesn’t have enough gas, dust and debris to create enough pressure to cause a flood. REPLY: Asks how much it would take.

POST 427: Off topic (Biblical chronology).

POST 428: Off topic.

POST 436: Addresses that most people in BC didn’t read/write. REPLY: Iron tools, musical instruments, tablets, predated flood.

POST 444: Off topic.

POST 445: Off topic.

POST 448: Off topic.

POST 450: Off topic.

POST 460: Off topic.
No evidence supporting a global flood was presented. Many questions that would support that there was no flood were never addressed.
 
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David Henson completely made up the reference to the conference in Sweden in order to support his position.

There the burden of refutation is now on you David.
 
Not many people would care about such an idiot. And we can only know what would happen IF you provide reasons for there being good scientific evidence of a flood. Perhaps you think that you have. You have not.

I have read the thread you started on the subject. I took notes. Some of your posts were perhaps time consuming. You provided 63 posts in a 12-page thread. But you did not provide one single shred of (even questionable) evidence for a global flood.

You provided some interpretation on the flood story. You provided an abundance of quotes and information about some matters of history. You questioned the accuracy of some scientific procedures (such as radiocarbon dating). You asked questions about the thermosphere and mountain creation.

But you did not, in the entire thread, provide a single piece of evidence of a global flood.

Here are my notes (I used “off topic” for any off topic, irrelevant, or inconsequential posts):

No evidence supporting a global flood was presented. Many questions that would support that there was no flood were never addressed.

It's in the bible,what more do you want?
 
David Henson completely made up the reference to the conference in Sweden in order to support his position.

There the burden of refutation is now on you David.

Well, according to the JW "theocratic war strategy", lying to nonbelievers in Jehova is perfectly acceptable.
 
The problem with this is that in 1971 a group of scientists, including Nobel Prize winner W. F. Libby, of the University of California at Los Angeles, who pioneered carbon-14 dating in 1949, assembled in Uppsala, Sweden, concluded that this list of assumptions which was 20 years old, failed in all 4 of the assumptions necessary to be accurate, every single time. That was in 1971!


Can we have some sources for this information, please? Links?

Here's some links that you should read:
http://www.tim-thompson.com/radiometric.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-age-of-earth.html
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood-c14.html

Here's a short extract from that last link...
It may interest the reader to know that within this 9000-year period, where the radiocarbon method can be checked by tree-ring data, objects older than 400 BC receive a carbon-14 date which makes them appear younger than they really are! An uncorrected carbon-14 date of 6000 years for an object would actually mean that the object was 6700 years old. Seven hundred years or so is about as far as the carbon-14 method strays from tree-ring dating on the average. Individual dates given on a 1973 correlation chart (Bailey, 1989, p.100) show that objects with true ages between 4200 BC and 5400 BC would receive a carbon-14 date making them appear 500-900 years too young. As it turns out, we have a check on the carbon-14 production which goes back even further than 8000 years:

Evidence of past history of C-14 concentration in the atmosphere is now available through the past 22,000 years, using ages of lake sediments in which organic carbon compounds are preserved. Reporting before a 1976 conference on past climates, Professor Minze Stuiver of the University of Washington found that magnetic ages of the lake sediments remained within 500 years of the radiocarbon ages throughout the entire period. He reported that the concentration of C-14 in the atmosphere during that long interval did not vary by more than 10 percent (Stuiver, 1976, p. 835).

Thus, the available evidence is sufficient to validate the radiocarbon method of age determination with an error of about 10 percent for twice as long a period as the creation scenario calls for.

(Strahler, 1987, p.157)


So, until the early seventies, carbon dating underestimated the age of very old items. Now the problem has been identified and corrected, and carbon dating has been empirically verified as being accurate (within 10%) for testing items up to 22,000 years old.
 
"Earth's oldest living inhabitant "Methuselah" at 4,767 years, has lived more than a millennium longer than any other tree."
.
Bristlecone Pine in the Sierra Nevadas in California, which many consider to be paradise on Earth, BTW.
Born before the creation of the earth, according to some chronologies.
 
"Earth's oldest living inhabitant "Methuselah" at 4,767 years, has lived more than a millennium longer than any other tree."
.
Bristlecone Pine in the Sierra Nevadas in California, which many consider to be paradise on Earth, BTW.
Born before the creation of the earth, according to some chronologies.


It also certainly would have died if it were submerged under three miles of ocean for almost a year, as those that believe in a global flood claim.
 
It also certainly would have died if it were submerged under three miles of ocean for almost a year, as those that believe in a global flood claim.

Kindly refrain from introducing facts into David's worldview.
 
Science is a faillible auto corrective process. Religion do not correct its understanding, PERIOD.

If two people suddenly get a different interpretation of some symbol, then either one is declared heretic and thrown out (or worst) or if the idea get enough tractation a schism happens, and TWO *new* religion both with equal valid claim to the truth (and no evidence, as in "faith") appears.

If two scientific get a different interpretation, experience will be done, peers will review their intepretation, falsification will happens (assuming we are speaking of something falsifiable) etc... At the end only 1 theory will survive (alright I am simplifying a bit here). *EVEN* for the case where there is no decision possible, you won't see the two group of scientist splitting in two group, and killing people over the "many world theory heretic" or "collapse theory mecreant", and separate their teaching in two building, congrating in different room, and all being passed CULTURALLY among familly member etc...

The Op should really really revisit his own assumption as they are clearly wrong.
 
.... *EVEN* for the case where there is no decision possible, you won't see the two group of scientist splitting in two group, and killing people over the "many world theory heretic" or "collapse theory mecreant", and separate their teaching in two building, congrating in different room, and all being passed CULTURALLY among familly member etc...

...
.
Sometimes it has been a mistake to renounce the old ways. :)
Death to string theory!
 
Actually, if I'm not on ignore ... I'd like to bring up one point concerning the bible --- it's built in "self-destruct" scriptures. Chiefly, these:

Matthew 22

36Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

37Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

38This is the first and great commandment.

39And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

40On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Hebrews 8

7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

Based on the ideas presented by these two scriptures, as far as I can tell, Jesus was saying, "You don't need to read a word about God or be told about God by anybody anymore. That way is becoming obsolete and can be summed up by the Golden Rule anyway."

Yes? So under the New Cov. it's unnecessary to understand a thing about the bible, God, or the spiritual past ... because God himself will be responsible for people and it is unnecessary to go around telling others how to be/live/think/spiritual truth/etc.

Yes?
 

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