Science Disproves Evolution

[catsmate]

Flood Legends

A gigantic flood may be the most common of all legends—ever. Almost every ancient culture has legends telling of a traumatic flood in which only a few humans survived in a large boat (a). This cannot be said for other types of catastrophes, such as earthquakes, fires, volcanic eruptions, disease, famines, or drought. More than 230 flood legends contain many common elements, suggesting they have a common historical source that left a vivid impression on survivors of that catastrophe.

Utter garbage, only belivable by someone who hasn't done the research or suffers from religion and promulgates a lie.
The vast majority of human cultures do not have flood legends.
For example there are no African flood myths, other than from Egypt (a flood of beer!) where the Nile flooding was well known in reality.
In Europe flood myths are absent from the mythology of the Celtic, Teutonic, Slavic, Baltic, Finno-Ugric or Altaic cultures.
In Asian flood myths are found only amongst the mythology of one group from Thailand and in China; the latter has people working together to build a dam to contain a river flood. A far cry from the Noah nonsense, which is, as had already been explained, recycled from older ME cultures.

Go and do some research for yourself, rather that continue showing your embarassing ignorance. I'd suggest http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/ as a suitable starting point.

 

[John Jones]

I haven't posted in this forum long enough to demonstrate the truth of my statement. If you visit other forums you will find that truth. You might go to: http://www.factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=12334
and: http://pcmb.insightbb.com/index.php?topic=6272.0
where you will find the following scientists being quoted:


Scott Tremaine, David Stevenson, William R. Ward, Robin M. Canup, Fred Hoyle, Michael J. Drake, Kevin Righter, George W. Wetherill, Richard A. Kerr, Luke Dones, B. Zuckerman, Renu Malhotra, David W. Hughes, M. Mitchell Waldrop, Larry W. Esposito, Shigeru Ida, Jack J. Lissauer, Charles Petit, P. Lamy, L. F. Miranda, Rob Rye, William R. Kuhn, Carl Sagan, Christopher Chyba, Stephen W. Hawking, Don N. Page, Huw Price, Peter Coles, Jayant V. Narlikar, Edward R. Harrison, Govert Schilling, Eric J. Lerner, Francesco Sylos Labini, Marcus Chown, Adam Riess, James Glanz, Mark Sincell, John Travis, Will Saunders, H. C. Arp, Gerard Gilmore, Geoffrey R. Burbidge, Ben Patrusky, Bernard Carr, Robert Irion, Alan H. Guth, Alexander Hellemans, Robert Matthews, M. Hattori, Lennox L. Cowie, Antoinette Songaila, Chandra Wickramasinghe, A. R. King, M. G. Watson, Charles J. Lada, Frank H. Shu, Martin Harwit, Michael Rowan-Robinson, P. J. E. Peebles, Joseph Silk, Margaret J. Geller, John P. Huchra, Larry Azar, J. E. O’Rourke, Peter Forey, J. L. B. Smith, Bryan Sykes, Edward M. Golenberg, Jeremy Cherfas, Scott R. Woodward, Virginia Morell, Hendrick N. Poinar, Rob DeSalle, Raúl J. Cano, Tomas Lindahl, George O. Poinar, Jr., Monica K. Borucki, Joshua Fischman, John Parkes, Russell H. Vreeland, Gerard Muyzer, Robert V. Gentry, Jeffrey S. Wicken, Henry R. Schoolcraft, Thomas H. Benton, etc.

The above scientists were quoted from the following peer review science journals:

American journal of science
Astronomical journal
Astrophysics and space science
Astrophysical journal
Bioscience
Geology
Icarus
Journal of Theoretical Biology
Nature
New scientist
Physical review
Physical review d
Physical review letters
Science
Space science reviews
The American Journal of Science and Arts

Were they quoted in those journals as supporting your view?

 

[Marduk]

Classical Chinese, dating to about 2500 B.C., is one of the oldest languages known. Its “words,” called pictographs, are often composed of smaller symbols that themselves have meaning and together tell a story. For example, the classical Chinese word for boat, is composed of the symbols for “vessel,” “eight,” and “mouth” or “person.” Why would the ancient Chinese refer to a boat as “eight-person-vessel”? How many people were on the Ark?

This is another lie, why do you bother Pahu, youre actually doing more to convince people that youre a religious fraud than anything else,
http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CG/CG101.html

1.The Chinese character for boat (chuan 2) consists of the boat radical on the left and a phonetic element on the right. The phonetic element has two parts. The upper part is a primitive ideograph for "divide," though it looks the same as the character for "eight." The lower part is the pictograph for "mouth." However, these two elements have only phonetic significance (Wright 1996; Wright n.d.).


2.The "vessel" on the left side of the glyph is a pictograph of a dugout canoe, nothing like an ark.


3.According to the Bible, Noah's ark carried very many more than eight mouths.


4.No flood myths from China include an ark with eight passengers.

Now heres flood myths from around the world,
http://home.earthlink.net/~misaak/floods.htm
Now Pahu, heres your big chance to prove everyone wrong, why don't you read this entire list and then work out what percentage have anything at all in common with the heavily abridged mesopotamian flood story that you think is a biblical original.

Because obviously, if you don't then we will know the following
1. You aren't interested in the truth
2. You are being intellectually dishonest posting here
3. You don't have any faith to speak of
4. because of 3, and by your own rules youre going to hell, so why should anyone listen to a word you say,

anytime youre ready


btw this will be what the 5th post of mine you have proven completely unable to address. Thats pretty poor for someone who claims to have all the answers

 

[joobz]

In what way?

What do you think a refrigerator does? If evolution violates the second law, so does your icebox.

 

[Simon39759]

Classical Chinese, dating to about 2500 B.C., is one of the oldest languages known. Its “words,” called pictographs, are often composed of smaller symbols that themselves have meaning and together tell a story. For example, the classical Chinese word for boat, is composed of the symbols for “vessel,” “eight,” and “mouth” or “person.” Why would the ancient Chinese refer to a boat as “eight-person-vessel”? How many people were on the Ark?

The problem with that cute little story is that far from being an ancient tradition passing down memories from long forgotten time, the addition of the 'eight' and 'mouth' is actually more recent.
Initially, only the left part of the pictogram (meaning "boat") was used. And the evolution of this pictogram, starting as a pictographic representation of the object and becoming more abstract over-time, is pretty well characterized...

This is not all, of course, most Chinese characters have several meanings depending of the concept, so the Biblical fitting is only a matter of picking and choosing the characters to fit the desired story...



Also, not to be nitpicky here, but this particular subject as little to do with science, let alone evolution... I know many creationists seem to misunderstand 'evolution' as meaning, "everything that contradict my understanding of the Bible", but that's not actually the meaning of the word...

 

[temporalillusion]

Pahu, Glenn R. Morton is a geophysicist, who is a Christian, and who also shows the difficulties with Walter Brown's ideas and shows how a global flood is impossible.

Why do you accept the writings of Walter Brown and not Glenn Morton?

 

[DC]

it is amazing what lengths believers go to keep their fantasy gods alive.

 

[Delvo]

Why do you accept the writings of Walter Brown and not Glenn Morton?

Well, does HIS website contain a list of names of alleged scientists who allegedly "confirmed" (nevermind the exact meaning of that word) his ideas and what alleged journals they were allegedly published in (nevermind whether or not the published papers were the ones with the "confirming" in them)?

Somebody should tell him to get to work on that list!

 

[Foster Zygote]

Why do you believe engineers are not scientists?

Why do you think I believe that? Albert Einstein was not a geologist. He once stated that some pretty wacky geological ideas seemed plausible to him. He was an excellent physicist, but he didn't know jack about geology.

Engineering is applied science. Walt Brown is also knowledgeable in the other fields you mention.

Given the number of gross errors he makes regarding other scientific fields (go to talkorigins and search 'walt brown' to see many examples of his ineptitude in other fields) I would have to disagree with your assessment.

Do you believe he is incapable of learning anything outside his chosen field?

No. But I strongly suspect that he is unwilling to learn anything that he doesn't think will support his belief in bronze age mythology.

His conclusions are based on known laws of physics, confirmed by scientists, some of whom he quotes.

Just because he quotes the work of well known scientists it does not necessarily follow that their work supports his conclusions.

What are his errors in the fields you mention?

They are too numerous to to list here. Let's start with one: He asks why some planets and moons have retrograde rotations if the solar system formed from a cloud of gas and dust. This only shows his ignorance of even basic astronomy. The early solar system would have been subject to many collisions and interactions before finally becoming relatively stable.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Pahu, if evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics, then so do you. As J.B.S. Haldane observed, you did it yourself in nine months.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

What do you think a refrigerator does? If evolution violates the second law, so does your icebox.

And so do embry... oh, it's already a zygote.

Pahu, if evolution violates the second law of thermodynamics, then so do you. As J.B.S. Haldane observed, you did it yourself in nine months.

Flood Legends

Brown's claims are bogus, but it wouldn't matter if every single culture on Earth had a flood myth identical to that found in Genesis. There's no physical evidence of a flood, and all evidence points away from one happening. Physical evidence trumps tales and stories.

Well, does HIS website contain a list of names of alleged scientists who allegedly "confirmed" (nevermind the exact meaning of that word) his ideas and what alleged journals they were allegedly published in (nevermind whether or not the published papers were the ones with the "confirming" in them)?

Somebody should tell him to get to work on that list!

If any of you are unfamiliar with some of the anti-YEC work Glenn Morton has produced, check out this page where he debunks the "geologic column exists only in textbooks and imagination" claim.
http://home.entouch.net/dmd/geo.htm

 

[devnull]

I wonder if any of this will sink in. Pahu?

 

[Dinwar]

where he debunks the "geologic column exists only in textbooks and imagination" claim.

Wow. That's.....It's really dpressing that someone needs to debunk such a statement.

Why do you believe engineers are not scientists?

For the same reason that geologists pretty much ignore what chemists say about structural geology, and why my wife (physicist) ignores what I say about relativity: It's not our area of expertise, we don't have all the facts or even enough of them to have intelligent opinions, and honesty would compell us to admit that the person who's done the research and put their time in behind the microscope (or particle accelorator, or telescope, or handlense, or whatever) knows more than we do. They may still be wrong, but at least they've got the data to work with.

 

[Dancing David]

When did I admit I am completely ignorant of what I post? I consider the fact that the scientist who confirm Brown's conclusions are quoted from peer reviewed science journals. It is my understanding only scientists are allowed to publish in those journals.

You keep saying that, post the links to the quotes.

 

[Dancing David]

Have you ever compared evolution with the fundamental laws of physics?

Changing the topic is not supporting your claim.

The first law of thermodynamics says that the actual amount or energy in the universe remains constant—it doesn't change. The second law of thermodynamics says that the amount of usable energy in any closed system (which the whole universe is) is decreasing. Everything is tending toward disorder and the universe is running down.

You don't know much about metabolism or entropy, living creatures can not do not and will not violate the second law.

Just look at your trash stream and think about how it got there.

The law of causality tells us that every effect is caused, so what caused the universe to begin?

law of causality, where did you read that?

Organic evolution is the process by which different kinds of living organisms are thought to have developed and diversified from earlier forms during the history of the earth in conflict with the 2nd Law of thermodynamics, and for which there is no observable evidence.

You apparently don't understand biology or thermodynamics.

You eat food, what happens?

There are two views of origins. One says that everything came about by natural causes; the other looks to a supernatural cause. The overwhelming evidence supports the Creationist view.

Stick to one unsupported claim at a time.

 

[Dancing David]

Is that assertion your authoritative statement? Why do you reject information from those who have information?

So you can't explain why liquefaction made a strata of quartz? I bet Brown can't either.

 

[Dancing David]

When someone asks a question, I assume they want the best answer I can come up with, so I refer them to those who can answer their question rather than giving them my ignorant opinion. What is wrong with that?

how do you know that answer is not ignorant opinion?

 

[Dancing David]

I haven't posted in this forum long enough to demonstrate the truth of my statement. If you visit other forums you will find that truth. You might go to: http://www.factnet.org/vbforum/showthread.php?t=12334
and: http://pcmb.insightbb.com/index.php?topic=6272.0
where you will find the following scientists being quoted:


Scott Tremaine, David Stevenson, William R. Ward, Robin M. Canup, Fred Hoyle, Michael J. Drake, Kevin Righter, George W. Wetherill, Richard A. Kerr, Luke Dones, B. Zuckerman, Renu Malhotra, David W. Hughes, M. Mitchell Waldrop, Larry W. Esposito, Shigeru Ida, Jack J. Lissauer, Charles Petit, P. Lamy, L. F. Miranda, Rob Rye, William R. Kuhn, Carl Sagan, Christopher Chyba, Stephen W. Hawking, Don N. Page, Huw Price, Peter Coles, Jayant V. Narlikar, Edward R. Harrison, Govert Schilling, Eric J. Lerner, Francesco Sylos Labini, Marcus Chown, Adam Riess, James Glanz, Mark Sincell, John Travis, Will Saunders, H. C. Arp, Gerard Gilmore, Geoffrey R. Burbidge, Ben Patrusky, Bernard Carr, Robert Irion, Alan H. Guth, Alexander Hellemans, Robert Matthews, M. Hattori, Lennox L. Cowie, Antoinette Songaila, Chandra Wickramasinghe, A. R. King, M. G. Watson, Charles J. Lada, Frank H. Shu, Martin Harwit, Michael Rowan-Robinson, P. J. E. Peebles, Joseph Silk, Margaret J. Geller, John P. Huchra, Larry Azar, J. E. O’Rourke, Peter Forey, J. L. B. Smith, Bryan Sykes, Edward M. Golenberg, Jeremy Cherfas, Scott R. Woodward, Virginia Morell, Hendrick N. Poinar, Rob DeSalle, Raúl J. Cano, Tomas Lindahl, George O. Poinar, Jr., Monica K. Borucki, Joshua Fischman, John Parkes, Russell H. Vreeland, Gerard Muyzer, Robert V. Gentry, Jeffrey S. Wicken, Henry R. Schoolcraft, Thomas H. Benton, etc.

The above scientists were quoted from the following peer review science journals:

American journal of science
Astronomical journal
Astrophysics and space science
Astrophysical journal
Bioscience
Geology
Icarus
Journal of Theoretical Biology
Nature
New scientist
Physical review
Physical review d
Physical review letters
Science
Space science reviews
The American Journal of Science and Arts

I see you can't provide relevant quotes from people. Evasion noted.

 

[Dancing David]

In what way?

You don't understand thermodynamics, refrigerators create more heat than they remove from the cooling compartment. Therefore they do not reduce entropy.

Life creates a huge amount of entropy, there is no 'reversal of entropy', what do you think digestion and metabolism are?

Where did your food come from? How did it get there? What happened when you ate it?

 

[Foster Zygote]

Let's look at some ignorant opinion.

Mutations are the only known means by which new genetic material becomes available for evolution.a Rarely, if ever, is a mutation beneficial to an organism in its natural environment.

Other than the "if ever" part, this is true. The beneficial mutations that result in a gene sequence reproducing with greater frequency than its competitors are indeed rare relative to the rate of overall genetic mutation.

Almost all observable mutations are harmful; some are meaningless; many are lethal.

This is false. The vast majority of mutations are neutral. Ironically, the accumulation of these truly random mutations in the genome of various species has been shown to support the theory of evolution by natural selection. The differences between the L-gulono Y-lactone oxidase pseudogenes of humans and chimpanzees has been shown to be far less than the differences between the same pseudogenes in humans and macaque. The difference is even greater between humans and guinea pigs.

No known mutation has ever produced a form of life having greater complexity and viability than its ancestors.

This is false. Nylonase is but one example. Brown's statement is invalidated by the entire field of epidemiology as well.