Science and free will

UndercoverElephant said:
What science are you referring to?
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Is there any other type of science I'm not familiar with?

You know the empirical one?
The one that is relied on to determine if something is likely real or not?
The one that works?
The one that has never shown anything to be acausal or non-causal?(yes, not even Quantum Theory which is what many woo-believers love to latch on to).

Not the one that makes claims based on semantics, our ignorance or gaps of knowledge.
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
I'm not even going to discuss this any further. You know the point I'm making is: headaches can be studied as something that is an actual medical sympton, not an illusion

You can keep saying science can't study and prove that headaches are an actual real medical symptom, but it won't make it any more true



I'm going to ask you this once again until you actually answer the question that's being asked to you


Yes or no?

Meaning:

If you are 100% sure you're seeing water (meaning, if you were asked at the moment if you "think" you're seeing water, you would answer "No. I don't think I'm seeing water. I know I'm seeing it. It's real, drinkable water), only to later find out as you walk further that you were wrong, that it wasn't actually water, that it was nothing but a mirage, even though at the previous moment you "knew" what you were seeing water. Do you in other words accept that perception is erroneous and leads to false beliefs, no matter how convincing they are? That believing that things are real because "you are one hundred per cent that what you're perceiving is real" is a dishonest approach based on wishful thinking?
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Ron.

Please read this book:

http://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog/SMIPRO.html
 
No. Please answer the question

I can see you refuse to answer a simple question. I can only wonder why
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
...no more that I can demonstrate that you can't prove there isn't an invisible pink flying unicorn hoping on the surface of Pluto. Good luck disproving that one.
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Has an invisible pink flying unicorn hopping on the surface of Pluto been detected?

The concept of free will especially as it relates to the idea of moral responsibility goes back to the Greek philosophers.
 
Frank Newgent said:
Has an invisible pink flying unicorn hopping on the surface of Pluto been detected?
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No, because it's invisible

You've just proven my point

Frank Newgent said:
The concept of free will especially as it relates to the idea of moral responsibility goes back to the Greek philosophers.
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So? The concept that the earth is flat also dates back to philosophers. That doesn't make it any more true
 
Frank Newgent said:
Has an invisible pink flying unicorn hopping on the surface of Pluto been detected?
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Has free will?
The concept of free will especially as it relates to the idea of moral responsibility goes back to the Greek philosophers.
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So does the idea of 4 basic elements and a heliocentric model of solar system. So?
 
paximperium said:
You East Coast New Yorkers and your time zone differences. Bah!
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What? I hope you're not implying that the earth is round. After all, the concept that the earth is flat has been argued over centuries by many well respected philosophers! Do your research!!
 
Ron_Tomkins said:
What? I hope you're not implying that the earth is round. After all, the concept that the earth is flat has been argued over centuries by many well respected philosophers! Do your research!!
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I don't get it...don't you guys live in the future?
 
UndercoverElephant said:
If so, then I have to answer: "nothing causes the act of will". If something is causing the act then it isn't an act of will at all, its just some physical event which is being determined by previous physical events.
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That's not true. If I cause an act of will, it is an act of will. If nothing causes an act of will, and I am something, then I cannot cause it. You cannot blame me for anything that is uncaused.
 
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Ron_Tomkins said:
No. Please answer the question

I can see you refuse to answer a simple question. I can only wonder why
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Ron,

I've answered your question. No scientist has ever measured or observed anybody's headache.

Where were we? I've lost the thread of the debate...

Geoff
 
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UndercoverElephant said:
I've answered your question. No scientist has ever measured or observed anybody's headache.
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Strange:
Tension Headaches: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/...inkpos=4&log$=relatedreviews&logdbfrom=pubmed

Migraines: http://www.pnas.org/content/98/8/4687.abstract
http://archneur.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/56/5/548

The day computers and brain scanners can record and playback human memories and experiences is the day we put the final nail into the coffin this "mystical" subjective nonsense.
 
UndercoverElephant said:
The it comes down to a disagreement over freedom of religion: you are trying to demand that I deny the validity of my own religious experiences. What is your ethical justification for such a radical demand?
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Ethical ? What in the blue hell are you talking about ?

The very core of critical thinking is to doubt and verify. I'm simply suggesting that this is what you should do. And yes, even about your own experiences. In fact, especially about your own experiences.
 
Belz... said:
Ethical ? What in the blue hell are you talking about ?

The very core of critical thinking is to doubt and verify. I'm simply suggesting that this is what you should do. And yes, even about your own experiences. In fact, especially about your own experiences.
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You are not in a position to tell other people that they should doubt their own religious experiences. Why?

(1) You have know way of knowing whether those experiences were real or delusions.
(2) It's none of your business what other people choose to believe about their own religious experiences.

Human beings have certain fundamenal human rights. One of those rights is freedom of to believe in the legitimacy of their own religious experiences.
 
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