Schwarzenegger's Boorish Behavior

Silicon said:


I would consider grabbing a stranger's breast (assault) worse than consentual sex. Yes.
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I would also.


But before I would convict someone I sure would want to have all the facts.
 
Originally posted by Clancie
If you find the allegations of sexual harrassment against Clinton so compelling even though they were not proven in court (and, yes, I'd like to see that "long list"), I wonder why you find the much worse testimonials against Schwarzenegger so -apparently-easy to deride and dismiss?
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Are you directing this question to me?

If so, when did I write that I find "the allegations of sexual harrassment against Clinton so compelling.." ??

What is this "long list"???

And when did I state that I easily dismissed the testimonials against Schwarzenegger or anything even resembling that?

Your quoted post above is either meant for someone else, or if it is directed toward me, you must be reading a post of mine that I can't remember writing or find anywhere in this thread- or you just interpret my posts with a style I will from now on refer to as "CLANCIEISM".
 
On a somewhat related note. They are attributing the stress of the campaign to Maria's obvious ill health. I have noted in other threads that she appears to be seriously ill. She looks worse than ever.
I hope she will be OK.
 
Originally posted by Clancie
But I also don't like the recall, because Davis was elected a year ago and I think it sets a very bad presedent. It was intended for extreme cases--like criminality--and there's no evidence of anything like the law intended.
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Where did you come up with this belief? Criminality? Do you know the laws intention?

The recall law was drafted with the purpose of removing "recalcitrant" politicians.

RECALCITRANT

Marked by stubborn resistance to and defiance of authority or guidance.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition

My view is that Gray Davis fits this description perfectly. He resisted and defied the will of the people of California (for the benefit of most who happen to read this: the people are the authority and provide the guidance for the elected; the Governor SERVES)
 
michaellee said:
What is this "long list"???
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This one:

michaellee said:
But "credible charges of harrassment" DO NOT include those made against Clinton, under oath before a Grand Jury, by:

Paula Jones, whom Clinton settled with for $800,000
Kathleen Willey, volunteer worker for the White House
Juanita Broaddrick, nursing home operator
A long list of many others but you don't care because they are not credible- they don't act for a living or perform dangerous stunts.
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Let's see the list. Then watch Clancie explain it away.
 
michaelee,

Got it:

Clinton Misogyny - Sex
Juanita Broaddrick (AR)- rape
Eileen Wellstone (Oxford) - rape
Elizabeth Ward Gracen - rape - quid pro quo, post incident intimidation
Regina Hopper Blakely - "forced himself on her, biting, bruising her"
Kathleen Willey (WH) - sexual assault, intimidations, threats
Sandra Allen James (DC) - sexual assault
22 Year Old 1972 (Yale) - sexual assault
Kathy Bradshaw (AK) - sexual assault
Cristy Zercher - unwelcomed sexual advance, intimidations
Paula Jones (AR) - unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault
Carolyn Moffet -unwelcomed sexual advance, exposure, bordering on sexual assault
1974 student at University of Arkansas - unwelcomed physical contact
1978-1980 - seven complaints per Arkansas state troopers
Monica Lewinsky - quid pro quo, post incident character assault
Gennifer Flowers - quid pro quo, post incident character assault
Dolly Kyle Browning - post incident character assault
Sally Perdue - post incident threats
Betty Dalton - rebuffed his advances, married to one of his supporters
Denise Reeder - apologetic note scanned

Clinton Misogyny - Other
Linda Tripp - coerce, intimidate, deny - Bob Bennett calls her a liar, release her job application, transfer her.
Julia Hiatt-Steele - Willey's friend and neighbor - used the machine to change her story.
Hillary Rodham Clinton - used as a cover humiliated
Chelsea Clinton - ignored
Betty Currie - used as cover and enabler
Donna Shalala - used as cover, used as whipping post in Cabinet meeting
Madeline Albright - used as cover
Secret Service - female agent complaints
Kathy Ferguson – unwelcome advances

Clinton as a Ladies' Man?
Marsha Scott - claimed an affair
Connie Hamzy - claimed sex
Bobbie Ann Williams - claimed paid sex, paternity

Following are names of ladies rumored to have had sexual relations with Bill Clinton. We of course do not have information to support these rumors and do not intend the reader to think that we believe any of them to be true. Some could be true, some could be false and some could be intentionally spread rumors so absurd as to make the ones listed above and all other rumors look absurd as well. As always, please draw your own conclusions:

Clinton as a Ladies' Man - Rumors
Marilyn Jo Jenkins - rumored
Susan Coleman - rumored (suicide 7.5 months pregnant)
Robyn Dickey -rumored, staffer
Lenora Steinkamp - rumored - mystery jogger on video tape entering the "infamous hallway" with Clinton
Kimba Wood - rumored, judge
Kelley Craighead - rumored, staffer to Bill and Hillary
Sharline Wilson - rumored, claimed drug association
Dee Dee Myers - rumored, staffer
Suzie Whitacre - rumored
Catherine Cornelius - rumored, "distant cousin".
Cheryl Mills - rumored, WH attorney
Current Secret Paramour (per Tripp/King interview) - rumored

Clinton as a Ladies' Man - Rumors with quid pro quo?
Beth Gladden Coulson - rumored - young judicial appointment
Eleanor Mondale - rumored - celebrity daughter, dated Ron Perelman (see Jordan)
Shelia Lawrence - rumored - Widow of Ambassador
Deborah Mathis - rumored - reporter/WH advancements
Debra Schiff - rumored - ex flight attendant, now staffer
Susan McDougal - rumored - business connections
Benazir Bhutto - rumored - current opposition leader in, and former prime minister of Pakistan

Clinton as a wanna be Ladies' Man or intended disinformation? - Rumors High Profile
Barbara Streisand - rumored - celebrity
Markie Post - rumored - actress
Sharon Stone - rumored - actress
Lencola Sullivan - rumored - beauty queen
Martha Stewart - rumored - celebrity
Diana Wiley Pietsch - rumored - sex therapist - Oxford.
Princess Di - rumored - royalty, deceased

NewsMax 12/29/00 Carl Limbacher ".....Before her death, Princess Diana claimed privately that a "very flirtatious" Bill Clinton made a pass at her during one of several meetings; and that she considered accepting -- according to close friends who recently shared Diana's confidences with noted royal author Judy Wade. Wade conducted "scores" of interviews with confidantes to the late Princess of Wales for her soon-to-be released biography, "Diana: The Truth," which is excerpted in next week's National Enquirer. After one Clinton encounter Diana reportedly said, "We were a little naughty with each other," according to one confidante who talked to the tabloid directly. ......"

Source: http://www.alamo-girl.com/0262.htm (there's more)
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Not only accusations of consentual sex, but also accusations of "unwelcomed sexual advance"s. And the list is actually more damning, since we have the names of the women accusing Clinton of it. With Arnold S., we have only rumors of the women.

Watch Clancie duck.

(You might want to repost this, since Clancie pretends to ignore me.)
 
SRW said:
But before I would convict someone I sure would want to have all the facts.
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Absolutely.

That's why I'm merely speaking in the abstract. I don't know what actually happened. But purely on a moral level of what the accusations are, I find these to be more "serious" accusations.


For example, if Schwarzenegger was accused of two different things. On the one-hand, walking up to women and grabbing at them, or on the other hand cheating on Maria, I'd have to say that the first charge would be "serious" and possibly criminal, and the kind of thing that has you registered as a sex-offender, and the second would merely be "a private matter".
 
Originally posted by CFLarsen
Let's see the list. Then watch Clancie explain it away.
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Added some details......

All material compiled and copyrighted by Capitol Hill Blue, Capitol Web Publishing 1999.

"...a campaign worker in 1978, a legal secretary who worked for one of his ardent supporters that same year, a Democratic fundraiser in Washington, a volunteer in the White House. Bill Clinton was so busy assaulting his own supporters that he never had time to get around to his enemies." (Capitol Hill Blue, 2/22/99)

Eileen Wellstone, 19-year-old English woman who said Clinton sexually assaulted her after she met him at a pub near the Oxford where the future President was a student in 1969. A retired State Department employee, who asked not to be identified, confirmed that he spoke with the family of the girl and filed a report with his superiors. Clinton admitted having sex with the girl, but claimed it was consensual. The victim's family declined to pursue the case;

In 1972, a 22-year-old woman told campus police at Yale University that she was sexually assaulted by Clinton, a law student at the college. No charges were filed, but retired campus policemen contacted by Capitol Hill Blue confirmed the incident. The woman, tracked down by Capitol Hill Blue last week, confirmed the incident, but declined to discuss it further and would not give permission to use her name;

In 1974, a female student at the University of Arkansas complained that then-law school instructor Bill Clinton tried to prevent her from leaving his office during a conference. She said he groped her and forced his hand inside her blouse. She complained to her faculty advisor who confronted Clinton, but Clinton claimed the student ''came on'' to him. The student left the school shortly after the incident. Reached at her home in Texas, the former student confirmed the incident, but declined to go on the record with her account. Several former students at the University have confirmed the incident in confidential interviews and said there were other reports of Clinton attempting to force himself on female students;

From 1978-1980, during Clinton's first term as governor of Arkansas, state troopers assigned to protect the governor were aware of at least seven complaints from women who said Clinton forced, or attempted to force, himself on them sexually. One retired state trooper said in an interview that the common joke among those assigned to protect Clinton was "who's next?". One former state trooper said other troopers would often escort women to the governor's hotel room after political events, often more than one an evening;

Carolyn Moffet, a legal secretary in Little Rock in 1979, said she met then-governor Clinton at a political fundraiser and shortly thereafter received an invitation to meet the governor in his hotel room. "I was escorted there by a state trooper. When I went in, he was sitting on a couch, wearing only an undershirt. He pointed at his penis and told me to suck it. I told him I didn't even do that for my boyfriend and he got mad, grabbed my head and shoved it into his lap. I pulled away from him and ran out of the room."

Elizabeth Ward, the Miss Arkansas who won the Miss America crown in 1982, told friends she was forced by Clinton to have sex with him shortly after she won her state crown. Last year, Ward, who is now married with the last name of Gracen (from her first marriage), told an interviewer she did have sex with Clinton but said it was consensual. Close friends of Ward, however, say she still maintains privately that Clinton forced himself on her.

Sandra Allen James, a former Washington, DC, political fundraiser says Presidential candidate-to-be Clinton invited her to his hotel room during a political trip to the nation's capital in 1991, pinned her against the wall and stuck his hand up her dress. She says she screamed loud enough for the Arkansas State Trooper stationed outside the hotel suite to bang on the door and ask if everything was all right, at which point Clinton released her and she fled the room. When she reported the incident to her boss, he advised her to keep her mouth shut if she wanted to keep working. Miss James has since married and left Washington. Reached at her home last week, the former Miss James said she later learned that other women suffered the same fate at Clinton's hands when he was in Washington during his Presidential run.

Christy Zercher, a flight attendant on Clinton's leased campaign plane in 1992, says Presidential candidate Clinton exposed himself to her, grabbed her breasts and made explicit remarks about oral sex. A video shot on board the plane by ABC News shows an obviously inebriated Clinton with his hand between another young flight attendant's legs. Zercher said later in an interview that White House attorney Bruce Lindsey tried to pressure her into not going public about the assault.
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Obviously, these women all misunderstood what was really going on; or are lying, money hungry bimbos with stories provided to them by that vast right-wing conspiracy group out to get Clinton.
 
!!!

Actually, we have names of some of the women in Arnold's case now.


And larsen, way to pad that list with CHELSEA CLINTON!!??!?!? MADELINE ALBRIGHT!??!?

WTF?!?!?!


Can I list Maria Shriver and Sharon Stone (co-star, COVER!), and Arianna Huffington (SHOT DIRTY LOOKS AT!)?


Now the S. list is at 15 women. And these are stories that were printed (premiere magazine) years before he declared his run for office. It's something Arnold is known for in the business.



I say we elect Larry Flint and at least be honest about it!
 
michaellee said:


Obviously, these women all misunderstood what was really going on; or are lying, money hungry bimbos with stories provided to them by that vast right-wing conspiracy group out to get Clinton.
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Of course if these has all been reported in the LA Times October 3 1992 then it would all be called Republican dirty tricks.
 

My view is that Gray Davis fits this description perfectly. He resisted and defied the will of the people of California (for the benefit of most who happen to read this: the people are the authority and provide the guidance for the elected; the Governor SERVES)
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But he fit that description last November when he was reelected by a majority of the voters. The 2003 budget crisis was set up when the 2002 budget crisis was "resolved" by delaying the hard decisions until 2003. There was nothing secret about this. The govenor and legislature were widely criticised for this at the time. It is one of the reasons I did not vote for Davis last fall. But despite his abyssmal performance in his first term, he was reelected (although it was mostly because the Republicans fielded a candidate even more repugnant to the voters).

Now 10% of the voters can force a recall with an absurdly short campaign period in which the incumbent party cannot (for tactical reasons) field a strong candidate. And a new govenor can be elected by a minority of the voters.

Absent charges that Davis acted illegally or violated his oath of office, I am voting against the recall. It is a very bad precident which may very well come back to haunt the recall supporters in the near future.

Who does a minority govenor serve: the minority that elected him or the majority that voted against him? If he persues policies favored by the minority, is that not, by your own logic, sufficient cause to recall him?
 
patnray said:


But he fit that description last November when he was reelected by a majority of the voters. The 2003 budget crisis was set up when the 2002 budget crisis was "resolved" by delaying the hard decisions until 2003. There was nothing secret about this. The govenor and legislature were widely criticised for this at the time. It is one of the reasons I did not vote for Davis last fall. But despite his abyssmal performance in his forst term, he was reelected (although it was mostly because the Republicans fielded a candidate even more repugnant to the voters).

Now 10% of the voters can force a recall with an absurdly short campaign period in which the incumbent party cannot (for tactical reasons) field a strong candidate. And a new Governor can be elected by a minority of the voters.
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Not quite Davis insisted that the Budget deficit was going to be 8 billion prior to the election. (down from a 20 billion surplus) After the election it went to 20 billion, and not until January did he admit it was 34 billion.

So if davis knew the extent of the problem prior to the election then he deceived the voters, if he did not know prior to the election then he is an incompetent boob. Enough to recall him in my opinion, especially when you add in everything else he had done or failed to do.
 
Re: !!!

Silicon said:
Actually, we have names of some of the women in Arnold's case now.
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BEEP! Moving the goalposts. When Clancie was making her point, we did not know the names.

Silicon said:
And larsen, way to pad that list with CHELSEA CLINTON!!??!?!? MADELINE ALBRIGHT!??!?

WTF?!?!?!
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As a skeptic, I am looking at all the evidence! ;)

Silicon said:
Can I list Maria Shriver and Sharon Stone (co-star, COVER!), and Arianna Huffington (SHOT DIRTY LOOKS AT!)?
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Huffington probably claimed that Clinton shot dirty looks at her in a previous life! ;)

Silicon said:
Now the S. list is at 15 women. And these are stories that were printed (premiere magazine) years before he declared his run for office. It's something Arnold is known for in the business.
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Really? Premiere Magazine does not even have a website anymore, and these stories came up just before the election. Surely these women would have come forward, maybe even seeking financial compensation, before?

Silicon said:
I say we elect Larry Flint and at least be honest about it!
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Now, that's a suggestion! :D
 
But he fit that description last November when he was reelected by a majority of the voters....

And a new govenor can be elected by a minority of the voters.
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In the 2002 election, Davis received:

* Gray Davis Dem 3,142,620 47.4

Does 47.4% represent a majority of the voters?

If yes, then how does one get elected with a minority of the voters?
 
Re: Re: !!!

CFLarsen said:


BEEP! Moving the goalposts. When Clancie was making her point, we did not know the names.
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BEEP! Wrong. When you said:

And the list is actually more damning, since we have the names of the women accusing Clinton of it. With Arnold S., we have only rumors of the women.
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.. we DID know names. When the Times article was published, there were 2 names of the 6, E. Laine Stockton and Anna Richardson.

Actually, we've known one name since 1990, if we read Premiere Magazine:A nna Richardson.

Now there's at least a third name, Colette Brooks:

"That incensed me," said Colette Brooks, who claims Schwarzenegger grabbed her
buttocks when she was a 23-year-old intern at CNN in the early 1980s. "He's
dodging any sort of culpability. He's dodging these allegations."
 
Silicon,

Correct. Now, what is the difference between AS's behavior and Clinton's?
 
Arnold Schwarzenegger: Well, first of all, a lot of these are made up stories. I have never grabbed anyone, and pulled up their shirt and grabbed their breasts and stuff like that. This is not me. So there’s a lot of this stuff going on that is not true.
Tom Brokaw: So you deny all those stories about grabbing.
Arnold Schwarzenegger: Not at all. I’m just saying this is not— this is not me. What I am is I’m, you know, someone that sometimes makes outrageous jokes, someone that is out there saying sometimes crazy things that may be offensive because there is a certain atmosphere on the set and all those things.
But you know, I’m known on the set and anyone can tell you that I’m known on the set as being the guy that really creates a great spirit on the set for everyone to work hard together and bring the team together and be a team player
The interesting thing is that those people who speak out on my behalf are not heard in the newspaper. Why is that? And why is it that they call and—

http://www.msnbc.com/news/976299.asp?vts=100620031359

Huh?
 
He complains about not being given a chance to respond then he says he'll respond after the campaign is over: this guy is a slimeball.

"Tom Brokaw: You’re not going to be anymore specific about these charges in terms of your denials.
Arnold Schwarzenegger: As soon as the campaign is over I will— I can get into all of the specifics and find out what is really going on. But right now I’m just really occupied with the campaign."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/976299.asp?vts=100620031359

Yeah, not like the voters have a right to know beforehand.
 
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