Schrodinger's Rapist: When is uncritical thought ok?

I think some of what the blogger listed as "do not disturb" cues will depend a lot on the individual person. Obviously I may have some trouble speaking for how any woman is going to act, since I'm not one, but a lot of times when I do things like read a book or work on my computer in public, I'd actually be really happy if someone showed an interest in what I was doing.

Other than that, yeah. It's a bit depressing and certainly not right, but I feel like a fair number of my male friends don't understand how hurtful rape can be and how important it is to be very careful. Even worse, a few of them like to start blaming the victim when they hear stories about people that were raped. ("Friends", by the way, is being very, very loosely used here. "Acquaintances" might be better.)
 
I think that people are afraid of being considered among those statistics if they make an advance on someone and get rejected. That's really not what this would be about.

You pass into "creep" territory when the person you're approaching makes a clear expression that she would like to be left alone by you, and you persist in your advances. You pass into sexual assault territory when your persistence gets physical.

The lines are really not so hard to define, are they?
 
Premise 1: Some men are rapists.
Premise 2: It is impossible to tell from looking at a man with certainty whether or not he is a rapist.
Premise 3: X is a man.
Conclusion: X could be a rapist.

Where's the fallacy?

"X could be a rapist" isn't really the conclusion the writer comes to. "I am justified in treating X as a potential rapist" is the conclusion. I read it as a non-sequitur, but inference fallacy is probably more apt.

According to the writers statistics and the additional data from GreNME, both of which are more than 10 years old, a women is not justified in believing an unknown male will sexually assault them. Based on the data they've provided I see three problems with the conclusion:

1) Statistically most women will not be raped.

87.5% of women, according to the writer's figure. How is this data skewed by women who are taking unnecessary risks? eg. Getting hammered then going home with a complete stranger. This type of behaviour no doubt increases the occurrence of rape compared to an society of sensible women.

Lest I be accused of being a rape apologist, I'm not even remotely insinuating that women deserve to get raped for getting drunk and going home with a stranger, or that any guy who takes advantage of such a situation is anything other than a morally bankrupt scumbag. It's deplorable that rape ever happens. I'm simply saying that such behaviour has been known to increase the chance of rape and in a society where no one engaged in said behaviour, the statistical occurrence of rape would likely be lower.

2) Statistically, the vast majority of men do not commit rape.

Treating all men as potential rapists can't necessarily be justified, seeing as the assumption will be wrong most of the time.

3) According to the source provided by GreNME, "Historically, females have been most often victimized by someone they knew."

This further invalidates using a blanket statistic against unknown men. Using a similar source as the blog author, this means 97% (give or take) of women won't be sexually assaulted by a stranger.


Given that the odds of dying from cancer are 1 in 7, I have to wonder if the author is just as thorough in screening herself from every potential carcinogenic substance she comes in contact with. I point this out because the whole blog entry seemed a bit paranoid to me. If it were on a different subject, like cancer prevention, it strikes me that it would seem a bit hysterical.

I'd also like to present the following adaptation to the syllogism above:

Premise 1: Some Muslims are terrorists.
Premise 2: It is impossible to tell from looking at a Muslims with certainty whether or not he/she is a terrorist.
Premise 3: X is a Muslim.
Conclusion: X could be a terrorist.

Is this argument sound? Is a person justified is taking the conclusion as the default stance? If not, what changes the validity? (These aren't rhetorical, I have an opinion and am interested in what others think.)

One final beef, which is really nitpicky. I'm sure there was some amount of jest when selecting the title of "Schrödinger's Rapist," but it was used so verbosely throughout the article, it kind of got on my nerves. Making the Schrödinger reference, whether intentional or not, alludes to the involvement of random probability; that all women are equally likely to get raped and all men are equally likely to rape them. This is not the case.

[/criticism]

I do think there's some good advice in the article and would likely impart some similar points to my children before sending them off to college.
 
"X could be a rapist" isn't really the conclusion the writer comes to. "I am justified in treating X as a potential rapist" is the conclusion.

I'm not seeing the difference between those two statements.

I read it as a non-sequitur, but inference fallacy is probably more apt.

According to the writers statistics and the additional data from GreNME, both of which are more than 10 years old, a women is not justified in believing an unknown male will sexually assault them.

So what? The author's claim isn't that an unknown male will assault them, only that he could.

Based on the data they've provided I see three problems with the conclusion:

1) Statistically most women will not be raped.

87.5% of women, according to the writer's figure. How is this data skewed by women who are taking unnecessary risks? eg. Getting hammered then going home with a complete stranger. This type of behaviour no doubt increases the occurrence of rape compared to an society of sensible women.

Lest I be accused of being a rape apologist, I'm not even remotely insinuating that women deserve to get raped for getting drunk and going home with a stranger, or that any guy who takes advantage of such a situation is anything other than a morally bankrupt scumbag. It's deplorable that rape ever happens. I'm simply saying that such behaviour has been known to increase the chance of rape and in a society where no one engaged in said behaviour, the statistical occurrence of rape would likely be lower.

2) Statistically, the vast majority of men do not commit rape.

Treating all men as potential rapists can't necessarily be justified, seeing as the assumption will be wrong most of the time.

Non sequitur. You seem to be assuming that "this man is a potential rapist" is equivalent to "this man has a >50% likelihood of being a rapist."

Gun safety instructors will tell you that you should "treat every gun as if it was loaded." It doesn't matter if you personally unloaded the thing two seconds ago, you still don't wave it around or point it at anything you don't intend to kill. Is that a bad way to think simply because most of the time the gun you think is unloaded is, in fact, unloaded?

The author isn't saying that every time a strange man approaches her, she hits him with pepper spray, dials 911 and yells RAPE! She's saying (1) that she exercises caution; and (2) that men should consider when they approach women the fact that women have to worry about these things, and so a considerate man -- or simply one who wishes his advances to be received positively -- will do his best to be non-threatening.

3) According to the source provided by GreNME, "Historically, females have been most often victimized by someone they knew."

This further invalidates using a blanket statistic against unknown men. Using a similar source as the blog author, this means 97% (give or take) of women won't be sexually assaulted by a stranger.

Great. Most drunk drivers make it home safely. Doesn't mean it's a good idea.

Given that the odds of dying from cancer are 1 in 7, I have to wonder if the author is just as thorough in screening herself from every potential carcinogenic substance she comes in contact with. I point this out because the whole blog entry seemed a bit paranoid to me. If it were on a different subject, like cancer prevention, it strikes me that it would seem a bit hysterical.

The part about not going out at night without her dogs strikes me as a little conservative, but let's put that aside. What did the author really say she does about her concerns? She doesn't say that she refuses to talk to any male strangers.

I'd also like to present the following adaptation to the syllogism above:

Premise 1: Some Muslims are terrorists.
Premise 2: It is impossible to tell from looking at a Muslims with certainty whether or not he/she is a terrorist.
Premise 3: X is a Muslim.
Conclusion: X could be a terrorist.

Is this argument sound?

Sure. Change "Muslim" to any other religion (or "atheist") and it would also be sound. The question is, what does the speaker propose to do about it?

Is a person justified is taking the conclusion as the default stance? If not, what changes the validity? (These aren't rhetorical, I have an opinion and am interested in what others think.)

If someone wants to argue that "therefore, we shouldn't let X on this plane," then I have a problem with it. But this author isn't doing the equivalent of that. She isn't demanding that the civil rights of men be curtailed in any way. She's not saying "men suck." She's just saying, hey guys, here's something that women generally worry about that guys generally don't, and you might want to take it into account in your dealings with women.
 
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"While you may assume that none of the men you know are rapists, I can assure you that at least one is."

This is bogus. I call bull (sigh) pocky just because of that statement alone.
 
Is it rape if she has one too many drinks and regrets it the next day?
 
Well, I'm convinced. :rolleyes:

Here are broader statistics. The likelihood for college women is higher, and considering the greater amount of risky behavior college students engage in. So, what's the basis for your incredulity?

1 in 6? Don't about 1 in 6 people also report having been abducted by aliens?

Here's one reason to be suspicious

This link shows a conviction that the alleged victim, Biurny Peguero, admitted she made up to get some sympathy from her friends and as an excuse for ditching them.

If a person can falsely believe that they've been abducted by aliens, they could falsely believe that they've been raped. Or they might say it for attention or sympathy, like Biurny Peguero.
 
If a person can falsely believe that they've been abducted by aliens, they could falsely believe that they've been raped. Or they might say it for attention or sympathy, like Biurny Peguero.

I seem to recall there was a study done on this "Buyers remorse". There was a tendency for the women to report being sexually assaulted when they hadn't because it made them seem more pure to their friends.

It was only when there was no consequence to the claim, obviously not something they reported to the police, but something their were inclined to do in private.
 
The author of this article claims that men, if their appearance is shabby, shouldn't approach women in public and try online dating? That's some real bullpocky.

Is there any evidence that men with poor hygiene and "cockroach tattoos" are more likely to be rapists, or is the author just extra creeped out by guys who aren't her type?
 
I seem to recall there was a study done on this "Buyers remorse". There was a tendency for the women to report being sexually assaulted when they hadn't because it made them seem more pure to their friends.

It was only when there was no consequence to the claim, obviously not something they reported to the police, but something their were inclined to do in private.
Sounds plausible to me. Anyway, my main point is that you can't trust surveys. 1 in 6 believe that Obama is a muslim, 1 in 6 believe in UFOs, 1 in 6 think the sun goes around the earth, 1 in 6 think they have seen a ghost, etc.

The author of this article claims that men, if their appearance is shabby, shouldn't approach women in public and try online dating? That's some real bullpocky.

Is there any evidence that men with poor hygiene and "cockroach tattoos" are more likely to be rapists, or is the author just extra creeped out by guys who aren't her type?

Is any woman into men with poor hygiene?
 
How is this data skewed by women who are taking unnecessary risks? eg. Getting hammered then going home with a complete stranger. This type of behaviour no doubt increases the occurrence of rape compared to an society of sensible women.

[...]

such behaviour has been known to increase the chance of rape

That's my cue! I'll go ahead and avoid specifically calling you a rape apologist and stick with pointing out that you are victim blaming. Women should be able to get as drunk as they want and go wherever they want with whoever they want without you making comments about how they are not sensible and are increasing rape. You know what increases rape? Raping people.

Talking about "unnecessary risks" brings to mind things like chainsaw juggling. Instead, you mention something that men can do without any real concern. That's male privilege (and yes, I love it). We get to do things like get smashed around strangers without worrying that not only will we get raped but then people will blame it on us for not being sensible. It is BECAUSE of that that we need articles like this one to remind us that women don't have this luxury and we should keep that in mind when approaching them.

In other words, the article is for you.
 
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That's my cue! I'll go ahead and avoid specifically calling you a rape apologist and stick with pointing out that you are victim blaming. Women should be able to get as drunk as they want and go wherever they want with whoever they want without you making comments about how they are not sensible and are increasing rape. You know what increases rape? Raping people.

Whoah, that's a little harsh.

People do things they don't remember doing when they get too drunk. It's entirely possible to get "black out drunk", do something "unsensible" or out of character and not recall doing it. It's also well known that alcohol reduces inhibitions. That's a dangerous combination.

I don't think anyone should get "as drunk as they want". Surely you don't mean that :confused:
 
Gun safety instructors will tell you that you should "treat every gun as if it was loaded." It doesn't matter if you personally unloaded the thing two seconds ago, you still don't wave it around or point it at anything you don't intend to kill. Is that a bad way to think simply because most of the time the gun you think is unloaded is, in fact, unloaded?

This is what I ask in the thread title. Maybe not bad but is it really being critical?
 
Instead, you mention something that men can do without any real concern. That's male privilege (and yes, I love it). We get to do things like get smashed around strangers without worrying that not only will we get raped but then people will blame it on us for not being sensible. It is BECAUSE of that that we need articles like this one to remind us that women don't have this luxury and we should keep that in mind when approaching them.

In other words, the article is for you.

Men can and do in fact get raped. It's just much less likely that it would happen to a man.

For the author of the article it doesn't matter. Even when she admits the probality of being raped is much lower (being in church and knowing the guy's mother) she operates as if it hasn't changed. Is it unwise? Maybe not, but again; is it really thinking critically? Is it fair?
 
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Sounds plausible to me. Anyway, my main point is that you can't trust surveys. 1 in 6 believe that Obama is a muslim, 1 in 6 believe in UFOs, 1 in 6 think the sun goes around the earth, 1 in 6 think they have seen a ghost, etc.

Agreed.

A quick check gives 0.301 reported rapes per 1000 people in the US. I found a quote that say only 16% of rapes and sexual assaults are reported

(which is still disgustingly high)

A conservative estimate is 0.19% of women have been raped. That's considerably less than the 25% reported in the survey.
 
Should women acknowledge that men are concerned with being wrongfully accused of rape, and thus be careful of how they approach men? Should I treat every woman I meet as a potential threat? After all, she could ruin my life.
 

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