Cont: School shooting Florida - pt 2

[smartcooky]

Indeed. Guns are a religion. Children are the sacrifice made to keep them.

This

& nommed

 

[johnny karate]

Why?

Because of the gullibility you demonstrate in uncritically accepting whatever agenda-driven conspiracy theory you are spoon-fed. It makes me sad to see the ignorant exploited so easily.

If Snopes is right, CBS shouldn't broadcast David Hogg quotes out of context. But their best evidence that the quote was taken out of context is the fact that he's said he was in class in other interviews. Well, that's what liars do, give conflicting information.

He gave no conflicting information.

But speaking of lies, will you be retracting any of the ones you told in this post now that they’ve been exposed by facts and evidence?

 

[johnny karate]

My favorite part about the latest iteration of CaptainHowdy’s ridiculous conspiracy theory is when the professional “crisis actor” admitted in a televised interview that he wasn’t really there when the shooting occurred.

I’m pretty sure not admitting to the conspiracy is the first thing they teach on day one of Crisis Actor Orientation.

 

[Aridas]

You are blaspheming against their faith.

(I am actually not being sarcastic, I genuinely think that explains their attitude)

Indeed. Guns are a religion. Children are the sacrifice made to keep them.

This

& nommed

Ehh... because of how far this has gone into nastiness, I'm directly stating my disagreement. Trying to simplify the issue into "it's a religion" is almost certainly wrong, most of the time, even if it is much easier to wrap one's head around that than the more complex nature of the issues at hand.

 

[Ranb]

It might as well be. As I understand it (and please correct me if I am misinformed) you can go to a gun show and buy anything you damn well please from a private seller, no questions asked.

You are misinformed. Where do you come up with this stuff? Some states (like CA or WA) require that any unlicensed buyer buy a gun through an FFL. In all states no individual can buy certain types of firearms unless they obtain a bkgd check and wait weeks or months for it.

As I understand it you can buy anything that's on the shelf at WalMart (other gun shops are available) with paperwork that's effectively a rubber stamp.

Maybe your definition of "rubber stamp" is different than mine, but Walmart uses an FFL and a bkgd check to make a sale. Do you think that the bkgd check used by the feds is a hoax? Sounds like it. Or perhaps most people are not denied when applying for the bkgd check because the vast majority are not prohibited from owning a gun?

Would you support increased background checks?

Yes

Would you support a blacklist? Where if your name is on said list for <reasons> then you don't get to own a gun.

There already is one.

Ranb

 

[Hungry81]

Trumpublicans on gun control: Nah it will take too much time, too much money, too many resources, and will not be totally effective if at all, so no point.


Trumpublicans on the wall: Hell yeah, it will be worth it when its done, we will find the money and resources if we cut funding to unnecessary programs and/or tax goods and will be effective enough. Give it a chance.

Anyone else see a problem here?

 

[bruto]

Interestingly, in latest news, here in Vermont, where gun control has been traditionally minimal, hunters' rights held supreme, and the constitution guarantees the permitless right to carry openly or concealed, swords, long knives, rifles and pistols; and where the very real threat of a huge school massacre was thwarted by what looks to be a combination of community cooperation, shooter stupidity and police doing their jobs, the Republican governor just signed legislation raising the ownership age, outlawing high capacity magazines and bump stocks, and increasing the ability of police to confiscate weapons from people demonstrating threats and violence.

Of course the usual gun folks are up in arms, but for most of us it will not change a thing, but maybe, just maybe, it will help to keep a few people from being randomly mass murdered by lunatics with high powered weapons. Or, of course, maybe the sky will fall and society will crumble as it so predictably did when civil unions were instituted....oh wait....

 

[Meadmaker]

So much in this thread.

My two cents... When children complain, don't engage unless you have some sort of teachable moment, commentary or advice. Double down if you have an audience of any kind.

As for Mr. Hogg's dismissive points about adults and democracy, the teachable moment would have been to explain that the United States embraces democracy but there is a distinction. We have a republic, which is a bit different.

Your home state may be more democratic than republican in nature, so your mileage will vary. Florida for the record, likes more democratic participation, so it is a vague republic with some very strong electorate involvement.

But, what's the point? That's a serious question.

Do you think that anyone thinks these kids have especially great insight into the problem of gun violence in America? I've praised Emma Gonzalez' public speaking ability, but it isn't like she's some amazing genius, with new ideas no one has ever thought of before.

As for democracy versus republic, I hear that stuff all the time. Darned near every time, it's being used to divert attention away from an issue, and it sure looks like that to me here as well. What's the point? Seventeen died one day, hundreds die in mass shootings every year, thousands are murdered in plain old not-mass shootings every year - and we're a republic, not a democracy. Oh, yeah. That's where the misunderstanding is? Well if that's the misunderstanding, count me in, because I certainly cannot see the point of it.

 

[quadraginta]

<snip>

As for democracy versus republic, I hear that stuff all the time. Darned near every time, it's being used to divert attention away from an issue, and it sure looks like that to me here as well. What's the point? Seventeen died one day, hundreds die in mass shootings every year, thousands are murdered in plain old not-mass shootings every year - and we're a republic, not a democracy. Oh, yeah. That's where the misunderstanding is? Well if that's the misunderstanding, count me in, because I certainly cannot see the point of it.

Maybe that's because you're a Democrat and not a Republican?

 

[smartcooky]

I guess now its clear that anyone who thinks the massacre at MSDHS was just another school shooting had better think again... this one IS different. Previous school shootings have never brought the NRA and its lackeys out in such a ferocious crapstorm of vile and loathesome rhetoric as this one has, as they directly attack the victims.

I'm actually happy to see NRA, its leadership, its members, its hard-core of fanatic gun nuts, as well as their far-right yes men, continue attacking these young survivors of gun violence. Why? Because doing so is like feeding fuel to the fire....the more you do it, the more you make the fire grow and the more powerful it becomes.

 

[EHocking]

Its clear that NRA gun-nuts cannot multi-task.

Probably why they love automatic weapons so much.

 

[Craig4]

Then I guess CBS shouldn't try to mislead the public. Interesting that the Snopes debunking says that he had his talking points about the NRA by 6 pm. and, evidently, his parent's permission to ride his bike back to an active crime scene alone and a signed release so he could be interviewed on air. Still not a survivor and barely a witness.

The NRA is his enemy. Why shouldn't he have talking points about them? Why shouldn't he make common cause with like minded people who can advance his cause? If you're going against an organization as despicable and well financed as the NRA, come heavy, use every advantage and go for the throat.

 

[jimbob]

Its clear that NRA gun-nuts cannot multi-task.

Not always true - they also have time to peddle conspiracy theories about the Syrian regime's chemical warfare attacks.

 

[CaptainHowdy]

Just walked up into the locked-down school, and through some random classroom's locked door. Impressive feat.

That's what I thought too. So impressive as to be impossible. Anybody who is interested in this story should watch the CBS special "39 Days" where David Hogg is allegedly quoted out of context. It purports to show us how a grassroots movement organized by the students at MSD took the world by storm but is actually a documentary of how an anti-NRA media exploited this incident to push its agenda. You know, the "conspiracy theory" that these kids weren't making the news, the news was making the kids.

Surprisingly, they did give airtime to Kyle Kushuv, the only kid who knows what he's talking about. But still, I think all these students will be able to identify with Jessica Lynch in a few years.

 

[jimbob]

That's what I thought too. So impressive as to be impossible. Anybody who is interested in this story should watch the CBS special "39 Days" where David Hogg is allegedly quoted out of context. It purports to show us how a grassroots movement organized by the students at MSD took the world by storm but is actually a documentary of how an anti-NRA media exploited this incident to push its agenda. You know, the "conspiracy theory" that these kids weren't making the news, the news was making the kids.

Surprisingly, they did give airtime to Kyle Kushuv, the only kid who knows what he's talking about. But still, I think all these students will be able to identify with Jessica Lynch in a few years.

May Samuel Colt have mercy on your soul! It's a sin against the spirits of prepping to misunderstand the situation as badly as you have. If you misread the signs of the oncoming immigrant horde as much as that, then you will walk right into the FEMA camps by mistake. And Alex Jones doesn't want you to do that.

Your post is an argument from incredulity against a strawman.

He was at school at the time of the shooting and after getting home once the situation had been resolved he then returned to school with his camera.

*That* is quite different.

 

[sadhatter]

I guess now its clear that anyone who thinks the massacre at MSDHS was just another school shooting had better think again... this one IS different. Previous school shootings have never brought the NRA and its lackeys out in such a ferocious crapstorm of vile and loathesome rhetoric as this one has, as they directly attack the victims.

I'm actually happy to see NRA, its leadership, its members, its hard-core of fanatic gun nuts, as well as their far-right yes men, continue attacking these young survivors of gun violence. Why? Because doing so is like feeding fuel to the fire....the more you do it, the more you make the fire grow and the more powerful it becomes.

I hear this every school shooting, and in 4 months the same people will have a new outrage they complain about four a season and move on.

I just *********** hate how self congratulatory our society has became. We are fighting the biggest civil rights fights, the biggest safety issues, the most important political situations. **** no wonder trump got elected.

Reality check, with regards to any topic of note the heavy lifting has been done. We are at the state now where we are polishing the products of generations past, not breaking new ground. And sitting astound sniffing our own flatulence talking about how important what we are doing is retarding actual progress.

But please tell me how this is the one time I'm wrong. Just like it was the last time and the time before that.

I want stricter gun control , but I know that waiting until **** his the fan and then talking about how sad I am isn't going to do it. It takes boring thankless politicing which is why the legions of really sensitive people telling people how sad they are and how heartwarming the kids are acting isn't going to do ****.

But again tell me how this time I'm wrong. Because if not then you have to face that you are not actually doing anything by "supporting" these kids.

 

[Meadmaker]

It purports to show us how a grassroots movement organized by the students at MSD took the world by storm but is actually a documentary of how an anti-NRA media exploited this incident to push its agenda.

These two narratives do not contradict each other. It's not either/or.


And....a reminder......It doesn't matter. Who cares? Why are you talking about the students? Why do they matter? Yeah, ok, one of them gave great speeches. Some of them are really dedicated. They're photogenic. They are inspiring, but.........whatever.


Should it be legal to own a weapon that fired as many bullets as Cruz fired? Forget the speeches. The interviews. The tweets. Should it be legal to own that weapon? I say no.

 

[P.J. Denyer]

These two narratives do not contradict each other. It's not either/or.


And....a reminder......It doesn't matter. Who cares? Why are you talking about the students? Why do they matter? Yeah, ok, one of them gave great speeches. Some of them are really dedicated. They're photogenic. They are inspiring, but.........whatever.


Should it be legal to own a weapon that fired as many bullets as Cruz fired? Forget the speeches. The interviews. The tweets. Should it be legal to own that weapon? I say no.

But disparaging the students is such a great distraction from discussing the issues that maybe everyone will forget those pesky seventeen dead kids.

 

[Aridas]

The NRA is his enemy. Why shouldn't he have talking points about them? Why shouldn't he make common cause with like minded people who can advance his cause? If you're going against an organization as despicable and well financed as the NRA, come heavy, use every advantage and go for the throat.

However true that may or may not be, the fact remains that in the interview of Hogg in question, absolutely nothing even NRA-related is said. There was indeed a general statement where Hogg stated that he wanted no more school shootings to happen, but anyone trying to twist being anti-school shootings into a statement that is somehow all about the NRA can be safely dismissed on the grounds of being too ignorant and irrational to be worth respecting on that matter. Well, to be fair, there's also the chance that it could be someone who thinks that the NRA (the organization, not necessarily the members) is actually pro-school shootings. Even if that happens to be the case, they should still be dealt with for their leap of logic in assigning that position to others on extremely slim grounds, though.

 

[332nd]

But disparaging the students is such a great distraction from discussing the issues that maybe everyone will forget those pesky seventeen dead kids.

It's also a distraction from having to explain how they came to the conclusion they'd be able to fight off that fabled "tyrannical government".