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Scholars Question Jones

slugmancs

Scholar
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Messages
85
I looked for this article in search and could not find it; it is press releases, statements, and quotes from transcripts that go against Steven Jones' assertions of the use of thermite. Most notably (I believe) is D. Allan Firmage, Professor Emeritus, Civil Engineering, BYU who said:

I find Professor Jones' thesis that planted explosives (rather than fire from the planes) caused the collapse of the Towers, very unreliable.
- D. Allan Firmage, Professor Emeritus, Civil Engineering, BYU

That is just one of many reputable scientists that stand up for 9/11 Fact.

http://www.debunking911.com/jones.htm

Also on the Alex Jones show Steven Jones and Leslie Robertson, who helped design the Twin Towers, debate.

http://media-nf.911podcasts.com/files/audio/StevenJones_LeslieRobertson_20061026.mp3

Sorry that I couldn't figure out how to link to the download but you can hear it this way.
Listen at the end when Jones won't accept Robertson's explanations and Robertson asks how the explosives could be placed.

-Slugman
 
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Robertson is the top expert on his building! Key thing CTist on 9/11 miss. Robertson tells all the impact speed design was a slow speed aircraft. The impacts of 9/11 were 7 to 10 times greater kinetic energy than the design.

Jones is insane. Jones is a nut case. He does not have a clue how to investigate 9/11. Jones has not one thing for 9/11.

Robertson is the number one expert, and he proves it against Jones.
 
[de-rail]Hey Mr Chainsaw, Is there any place we can see examples of your chainsaw carvings? Got a gallery or something online?[/derail]
 
Just hypothetically,

How do you know that Allen Firmage wasn't bribed or coerced into saying what he said?

I mean, if a country was bad enough to commit an act of treason, don't you think coersion and bribery wouldn't be out of the question.
 
Just hypothetically,

How do you know that Allen Firmage wasn't bribed or coerced into saying what he said?

I mean, if a country was bad enough to commit an act of treason, don't you think coersion and bribery wouldn't be out of the question.

While we're assuming that, why not just rub Jones out in the first place? How about silencing all opposition?
 
I have got to visit you some day when you're experimenting... :cool:

Bring extra dark welding hood, high temperature clothing, I have created a large expanding bubble of hot burning aluminum in air, expanding at supersonic speeds. It produced temperatures about 2800c and light twice as bright as the sun.
I just had to do it curiosity.
I am now into more mundane experiment like creating Iron from Iron ore using the carbon liberated from the combustion of hydrocarbon fuel oils.
Like kerosene and diesel fuel, crushing concrete and lime stone with my gloved hand after subjecting it to the quick lime process brought about by heating it with diesel and kerosene.
I have done this to both cinder block and 4 inch slab containing lime stone.
I have gotten steel to ignite by using a strong chimney effect and aluminum, a small amount to raise the heat, and some carbon to start the carbon boil process that uses up the oxide coating while producing heat. Exposing fresh hot steel to more oxygen. Interestingly when the steel ignites it greatly increases the amount of liberated carbon black in the smoke igniting more steel and turning the smoke a dark black color.
Which should be quite similar to what happened in the fires of the World Trade Centers.
I have also created small explosions using the carbon black dust from diesel fuel and Kerosene, as well as from charcoal, as well as explosions of burning steel dust from rapidly fracturing steel do to stress.

(What happens to concrete in a fire.)
http://http://chainsawsanders.com/Untitled_20070325_1.MOV

Guinness prime time,
http://chainsawsanders.com/Untitled_20061201_1.WMV

My site, http://chainsawsanders.com/Welcomepage.html
it has not been updated in years I simply can not keep up with the orders I have so many I am not looking for new work. Right now I am in negotiations for a stunt, chainsaw carving a lottery ticket taped to my neck without damaging the ticket.
It has just went a little crazy and the death treats I have received from some truthers really want me to keep a low profile right now, it is not that I am worried about one of them hurting me, that does not bother me at all, it is what I might do if one actually tried to carry out the treats, after all I have been known to shave people with a chainsaw before.
I am basically a peaceful man but I do lose my temper from time to time. I just hope that truthers are not dumb enough to try anything.
bearda.jpg
 
Just hypothetically,

How do you know that Allen Firmage wasn't bribed or coerced into saying what he said?

I mean, if a country was bad enough to commit an act of treason, don't you think coersion and bribery wouldn't be out of the question.
First, countries don't commit treason. Second, no evidence has been produced by a single person anywhere that "9/11 was an inside job." Third, there is no reason to think that Allen Firmage doesn't believe what he says. To anyone who practices science and scholarship, Steven Jones' work is obvious twaddle. Fair enough?
 
Just hypothetically,
How do you know that Allen Firmage wasn't bribed or coerced into saying what he said?

I mean, if a country was bad enough to commit an act of treason, don't you think coersion and bribery wouldn't be out of the question.
You could look at Jones' work and see how it does not take an expert to figure out Jones' work is junk. Any lay person could see the errors in Jones' work, and the outright lies.

He came up with this thermite junk years after 9/11 because he does not like the war in Iraq. He made it up. Not that I like the war in Iraq but Saddam did break his agreements many times and shot at our planes. The Taliban should have rounded up UBL and they would still have power and life.

Where are Jones' facts? I can come up with facts for both wars to argue either side, why is Jones not able to find one single fact for 9/11.

If your question was rhetorical, please excuse my Jones rant. But he is very personable just being a idiot with his politics and telling lies to bring about his ends. My opinion on his intent, fact on his lies.
 
You could look at Jones' work and see how it does not take an expert to figure out Jones' work is junk. Any lay person could see the errors in Jones' work, and the outright lies.

He came up with this thermite junk years after 9/11 because he does not like the war in Iraq. He made it up. Not that I like the war in Iraq but Saddam did break his agreements many times and shot at our planes. The Taliban should have rounded up UBL and they would still have power and life.

Where are Jones' facts? I can come up with facts for both wars to argue either side, why is Jones not able to find one single fact for 9/11.

If your question was rhetorical, please excuse my Jones rant. But he is very personable just being a idiot with his politics and telling lies to bring about his ends. My opinion on his intent, fact on his lies.

What really surprised me about DR. Jones is that he tried to get a hydrogen reaction by spraying aluminum in a furnace with high pressure water.
That showed me that he did not know anything about the Oxide layer of aluminum which was critical to any reaction with it and any Oxygen containing material.
I once saw a hydrogen reaction, a large Ingot of Aluminum destine to be bumper stock, for semis, on fire glowing white in the rain.
While we were stuck in a traffic jam do to a semi sliding off the new slippery pavement, and the Aluminum Ingot on back actually undergoing a Oxide reaction.
What was curious to me is the reaction continued as long as the engine was running, when the driver shut down the engine the hydrogen reaction stopped. Something about the running diesel engine in the mack semi cause the reaction to continue.
I always wondered what that was!
IT is not even a matter of temperature, as anytime the oxide layer is broken aluminum will react to Oxygen, and aluminum can burn either white or yellow depending on how the Oxide layer is compromised.
Aluminum however does not usually flow while glowing yellow as DR. Jones does claim, he is right about that, because of the high conductivity of the material it simply cools to fast, but if you add a material though a high impact situation, such as steel that reduces the conductivity of the Aluminum then the material can glow and flow.
You can not however melt the materials together as the aluminum Oxide will float the materials away from the aluminum inside the oxide layer.
It can only form though high impact, and interestingly enough even a small amount of material included into Aluminum below the oxide layer can dramatical change the conductivity rate of the aluminum.
Also I wish to point out in an Oxygen atmosphere you will never see pure aluminum without the oxide layer because the transition of aluminum to aluminum oxide is virtually instantaneous.
It only took me a few seconds on the phone to notice that Dr. Jones was selling thermite snake oil.
My one great wish is to continue the work on the oxide layer of aluminum, and to do more research on that, but for that I need a good sample of the material, I found such a sample but unfortunately they will not let me put my hands on it.
http://collectorfinejewelry.com/buyers_guide_spinel.htm

After all it is for Science you know, and I did promise to return the rest of the crown after I was done with the Aluminum Oxide Experiments.:D
 
My site, http://chainsawsanders.com/Welcomepage.html
it has not been updated in years I simply can not keep up with the orders I have so many I am not looking for new work. Right now I am in negotiations for a stunt, chainsaw carving a lottery ticket taped to my neck without damaging the ticket.

Mr. Chainsaw, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Also, this sounds like it would make a good headline for The Onion: "Man Who Cuts Own Toenails with Chainsaw, Not Crazy Enough to be Truther."

Very respectfully,
Myriad
 
Mr. Chainsaw, I'd like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Also, this sounds like it would make a good headline for The Onion: "Man Who Cuts Own Toenails with Chainsaw, Not Crazy Enough to be Truther."

Very respectfully,
Myriad

Sorry I do not have a news letter, thought about doing a blog, but can not find the time.
I really do not even have time to eat and sleep right now at the start of the show season.
Not even much time to socialize with friends anymore.
Although I was invited to lunch the other day by a local truther, and I accepted as long as were having salad sure hope he likes my special kind of Salad.
070707.JPG


I am not worried about the truth movement because sometimes I am literally un touchable. Like when I eat poison Ivy and retain the oils in my skin for up to three months. Sure messes up the love life though.

I may be crazy but I am not stupid and that is why I am not a truther!

PS. do not try the Poison Ivy thing yourself, you can die from it, I am part native american and my body just does not react to Poison Ivy It is a natural condition of my heritage. My father, could do it, and his father before him.
In fact my body does not break the oils down well so I can retain them for periods in my body with no harm to me.
It is a problem though when you meet an exceptionally sweet young lady and you can not touch or hold her, even though she wants you to, but such is life I guess.
Atleast I have my gambling addiction to keep me occupied while looking for the perfect Lady for me.

http://chainsawsanders.com/Gambler2.WMV

Keep your friends close, your enemies closer and give a truther a big hug from me.
 
How come people said they heard powerful explosions in the towers, usually in the basement area?

Also, how did the building fall at nearly free-fall speed? From what I'm aware, woldn't the top of the building falling through all thouse floors be slowed down quite a lot initially at least (as momentum kicked in)

INRM
 
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How come people said they heard powerful explosions in the towers, usually in the basement area?

Sound and shock waves travel though steel at 5100 meters per second. Once the shock wave reach the foundation they have no place else to go and rebound upward!
Also, how did the building fall at nearly free-fall speed? From what I'm aware, woldn't the top of the building falling through all thouse floors be slowed down quite a lot initially at least (as momentum kicked in)
NO since it was the welds that failed and as I said before sound and shock waves travel though steel at 5100 meters per second.
In fact a shock wave only collapse could have theoretically taken place at 7/8ths free fall speed, world trade two fell at 3/4ths free fall speed to slow for a shock-fracture wave collapse so some of the steel must have been going though a plastification effect and Euler Buckling!
INRM


Sound and shock waves travel though steel at 5100 meters per second.
 
Didnt want to start a new thread just yet, so I put it here...looks like the "Scholars for 9/1 truth" is down...not sure if this is permanent or not, but when you go to the old site...

http://www.st911.org/

you get a fork where you can go to either the old site or the new scholars ofr truth and justice. The latter link works, but the link to the "original" scholars group (Fetzers site) is down...

Has he kicked it in, and the site with it???

TAM:)
 
Both links are now working.

I guess this is how Fetzer and Jones worked out their little split.
 

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