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Schisms

I like the article's quote from Mazzucco:

He addresses the "scientific papers" by Chandler and Legge.

Mazzucco, in researching his film, says he examined all the “scholarly papers” by the group very carefully but did not find anything persuasive in them.

“I discarded immediately the*Legge/Chandler paperbecause of course the first thing I did was go and check the sources they used for that list of witnesses, and when I got down to 20 and I couldn’t find anyone I said something is wrong with this. That’s why I call it junk. And I don’t use the word “junk” very easily. In terms of a researcher, unsupported and undocumented witnesses are junk. And Craig Ranke (of CIT, which made the filmNational Security Alert) has done the opposite: he’s put name and last name of people and what they say. It’s on the spot, and it’s on camera.”
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kameelyun said:
He addresses the "scientific papers" by Chandler and Legge.
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It takes great ignorance to believe or use CIT, even more ignorance to deny 77 impacted the Pentagon. Have you figured out NORAD yet?

Ironically 911 truth liars are calling other 911 truth liars, liars; 911 truth, the movement of lies, and gullibility.

Poor 911 truth, no progress in 14 years. Their only product spreading lies and idiotic claims based on delusions. Not surprised 911 truth "activists" fight about their crazy claims.

It is kind of silly to talk about witnesses when the FDR, Radar, and DNA prove it was 77.

Among the most solid research done on the Pentagon is that done by CIT and Pilots for 9/11 Truth. Nothing diverging, nothing contradictory. https://truthandshadows.wordpress.c...truth-co-opted-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/
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Using CIT and pft as solid research, a sign someone is not firing on all four.

Mazzucco uses BS to form nonsense.
 
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It's a false dilemma to think that
  • either CIT and posse are right and scientifically sound while the Chandler/Legge posse are wrong and frauds
  • or the Chandler/Legge posse are right and scientifically sound while the CIT posse are wrong and frauds

There is also at least the third possibility that both CIT and Chandler/Legge are frauds.
 
A whole pile of stupid...
https://truthandshadows.wordpress.c...-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/#comment-35944

Further down in the comments...
I don’t think so. General Stubblebine wasn’t chief of Army intelligence because he’s stupid. That’s all I have to say on the matter.
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General "I Can Walk Thru Walls" Stubblebine looks at photo and proclaims, not an airplane.

Not news 911 truth nuts have problems with other 911 truth nuts.

Now I have to figure out who the no plane nuts are, and who the it was plane nuts are.


Hoffman had done some of the great early work in destroying the NIST reports, thus becoming a target for a deep cover mission of disinformation.
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... this was cute.
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/blasting_scenario.html
The paranoia of "deep cover mission of disinformation", has to be extra credit delusional bliss for 911 truth dolts...
With no clue the entire 911 truth movement is delusional disinformation, the dolts argue about who is the deep cover plant.
As for Hoffman, his work belongs in a special branch of 911 truth delusional claims.
Once descent of the Tower's upper block begins, the thin-film explosives on the equipped floors are detonated via the wireless control system just ahead of the descending wave of destruction below the crash zone, as well as in the upper portion of the descending block.
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With 1.8 million ceiling tiles destroying the WTC...


The best part of the summary by a 911 truth with delusions of an inside job, and thermite...
So, without recalling exact dates for any of this, we come to the point where Jones and Fetzer have a blowup and Jones splits off and begins Journal of 9/11 Studies. Most of the genuine scientists join him in the split. Fetzer is left with “the loonies” as I would put it. He goes on to promote the “Dew” idea, then the “No-Planes” concept, the “Video Fakery” concept, the “Hologram Planes” idea, and then the “Nukes at WTC” concept. In my opinion, all being pseudoscience drivel, and willful disinformation.
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Jones fakes the thermite conclusion in a vanity journal with his "genuine scientists"...
A person who believe in the fantasy of thermite calls the other side of the house "loonies". And he is a no plane nut too?
Is Jones a no plane nut, or a thermite nut? Two nuts in one.
 
Oystein said:
A truther's take on the history of the schisms:
https://truthandshadows.wordpress.com/2015/10/19/credibility-of-ae911truth-co-opted-to-push-pentagon-plane-impact/#comment-35944
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When I first saw the link,I thought "they are going to blame evil government disinfo for the Truth Movement splintering". I was right.

Real reason,of course, in the huge egos of the Truther "Leaders". They are just like a bunch of kids arguing over who is going to be the Boss of the Treehouse this week.
 
It is truly amazing what excellent debunking some of the Truthers can do when it comes to aspects of the conspiracy theory with which they disagree. Hoffman's demolishing of the no plane at the Pentagon theories was really quite well done and thorough.

And then he comes up with the ceiling tile thermite idea.:eye-poppi
 
Brainster said:
It is truly amazing what excellent debunking some of the Truthers can do when it comes to aspects of the conspiracy theory with which they disagree. Hoffman's demolishing of the no plane at the Pentagon theories was really quite well done and thorough.

And then he comes up with the ceiling tile thermite idea.:eye-poppi
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Fetzer was spot-on debunking nano-thermite, and the interview Greg Jenkins did with Judy Wood still remains one of the most briliant pieces of debunking ever.
 
So, without recalling exact dates for any of this, we come to the point where Jones and Fetzer have a blowup and Jones splits off and begins Journal of 9/11 Studies. Most of the genuine scientists join him in the split. Fetzer is left with “the loonies” as I would put it. He goes on to promote the “Dew” idea, then the “No-Planes” concept, the “Video Fakery” concept, the “Hologram Planes” idea, and then the “Nukes at WTC” concept. In my opinion, all being pseudoscience drivel, and willful disinformation.
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That's the split I was talking about, but this guy gets it wrong: Jones&Co are the pseudoscientists, whereas Fetzer and the loonies are anti-science, believing their own imagination mystically divines the truth.
 
The feud has entered a new round on Craig McKee's blog:
"Pentagon debates expose emptiness of large-plane-impact scenario"
Witness, in the comments, Dwain Deets and Wayne Coste, fight against McKee and friends.

Coste recently [URL="http://houston911truth.net/audio/12716.mp3"](January 27th) held a debate[/URL] at McKee's and Ken Freeland's monthly "9/11 Truth Teleconference", arguing in favor of a large plane crashing into the Pentagon - the participants subsequently voted him down by a large margin. (Coste's presentation slides are here. )

Adam Taylor weighs in on his blog and calls McKee a Liar for 9/11 Truth.

And then we have this comment by Domenick DiMaggio (a Truther specializing, it seems, on Shanksville woo):
Domenick DiMaggio said:
I read the comments and I remember why I dropped out of the truth movement. Do you guys know Randi’s Kids devised a plan to gain entrance into this movement and tear it apart from the inside right?

So today you have “established credible” 9/11 truthers who do nothing all day but try to discredit the work of other 9/11 truthers.

For example, I, Domenick DiMaggio being a 9/11 truther, do not believe thermite has been proven to have been used at the WTC. I do not however attack those who discuss it, I promote my Shanksville work.

...
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Don't I love it! So we JREF/ISF debunkers are credited with successfully engineering these schisms, including the betrayal by Chandler et al

And there seems a new schism in the making - or a new rift opening between the churches: It seems, some folks in the "Church of Pentagon No Plane" are beginning to see through the thermite dogmas that are so holy to most mainstream truthers! :cool:
 
I followed your link and read the comments and the presentation of McKee. It's hard to take these people seriously. It's sort of interesting to see how they think they have evidence and have reached conclusions... a bunch of amateur sleuths with no technical training with such strong conviction of their "beliefs". A vote has determined that there are fakes in their midst! And it's all about the no plane could possibly have hit the pentagon... it's all staged! (and not a soul saw a thing!)

These are no unintelligent people. But they are blinded by some sort of political ideological view of the world and what doesn't fit was simply staged to make it LOOK real.

I was called an infiltrator.... hahahahaha

Not too many take these people seriously... THAT is the real truth.
 
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Oystein said:
The feud has entered a new round on Craig McKee's blog:
"Pentagon debates expose emptiness of large-plane-impact scenario"
Witness, in the comments, Dwain Deets and Wayne Coste, fight against McKee and friends.

Coste recently [URL="http://houston911truth.net/audio/12716.mp3"](January 27th) held a debate[/URL] at McKee's and Ken Freeland's monthly "9/11 Truth Teleconference", arguing in favor of a large plane crashing into the Pentagon - the participants subsequently voted him down by a large margin. (Coste's presentation slides are here. )

Adam Taylor weighs in on his blog and calls McKee a Liar for 9/11 Truth.

And then we have this comment by Domenick DiMaggio (a Truther specializing, it seems, on Shanksville woo):


Don't I love it! So we JREF/ISF debunkers are credited with successfully engineering these schisms, including the betrayal by Chandler et al

And there seems a new schism in the making - or a new rift opening between the churches: It seems, some folks in the "Church of Pentagon No Plane" are beginning to see through the thermite dogmas that are so holy to most mainstream truthers! :cool:
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You don't know Dom? He was pals with Shaky Craig and Aldo the Buffet Slayer in CIT for awhile.

Bit of a douchebag if I recall correctly.
 
16.5 said:
You don't know Dom? He was pals with Shaky Craig and Aldo the Buffet Slayer in CIT for awhile.

Bit of a douchebag if I recall correctly.
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Yep, I remember an article where he went to Shanksville and annoyed the hell out of everyone looking for a shoot-down witness or someone who would say there was no plane in that crater -- he didn't care which, just so it wasn't the "official story." A LOT of Shanksville residents helped clean up that mess, so needless to say, it did not go well. Didn't phase him, though. He claimed their overreaction to his douchebaggery was suspicious.
 
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The schisms continue:

"Announcements

Dave Slesinger asked if anyone would be willing to work with him in approaching Professor Zdeněk Bažant of Northwestern University who has written papers supportive of the 9/11 official story. Wayne Coste said he is trying to get the American Society of Civil Engineers to retract four papers that are not scientifically valid, and he would also like help with this."

Honegger is running in CA on a 9/11 truth ticket

You're entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts...

And this is one of the problems... they can't see, to distinguish fact from fantasy... junk science from real science... confirmation bias from the scientific method.

This is not a failure of imagination... this is a case of being unable to distinguish fantasy from reality.
 
JSanderO said:
The schisms continue:

Honegger is running in CA on a 9/11 truth ticket
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Nothing about the "9/11 Truth ticket" in this news bit. I used to go to the Naval Postgraduate School for a conference every summer up until the Navy shut down all travel for us minions a few years ago. I wonder if Honegger was there. Woulda been fun seeing her - like seeing the two-headed snake in the carnival freak show.

http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/blogs/news_blog/five-candidates-vie-for-sam-farr-s-congressional-seat/article_f284f8ea-ec99-11e5-9b3a-9f54f285b52d.html
 
JSanderO said:
"Announcements

Dave Slesinger asked if anyone would be willing to work with him in approaching Professor Zdeněk Bažant of Northwestern University who has written papers supportive of the 9/11 official story. Wayne Coste said he is trying to get the American Society of Civil Engineers to retract four papers that are not scientifically valid, and he would also like help with this."
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Source, please?
 
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