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Merged Scalia is dead

You answered your own question:


You don't care about the Constitution or the principles of democracy. You are content with having a larger voice than your fellow Americans. So we pay more into the federal government and you take more out.

Arizona gets $1.47 back for every dollar paid into the the federal government. The liberal states you have disdain for are subsidizing your state.

So d'uh, of course you like the status quo.

Why the hell do you think I have disdain for liberal states? I mean I do, but I have far more for conservative states (including my own). Also, I don't want any subsidies and I cast my votes for candidates to get rid of them.
 
I thought that the point of the Senate was to ensure that each State had an equal voice in the running of the country, regardless of how sparsely or densely populated it was. Thus the focus of the Senate on matters regarding the nation as a whole, while the House focuses on matters regarding the governance of each citizen (and thus is proportional where the Senate isn't).

The existence of the Senate is owed to small states refusing to join the union; it was never part of some grand vision. Here are a couple famous quotes from the delegates:

“If the minority of the people of America refuse to coalesce with the majority on just and proper principles, if a separation must take place, it could never happen on better grounds.” – Pennsylvania representative to small states delegates

“The large states dare not dissolve the confederation. If they do the small ones will find some foreign ally of more honor and good faith, who will take them by the hand and do them justice.” – Delaware delegate

The system we have is a reworked combination of the New Jersey Plan (which favored smaller states -- "one state, one vote," I believe) and the Virginia Plan (which said representation should be apportioned to either population or tax revenue). One of the ironies is that New Jersey's population would eventually exceed Virginia's, but the states' positions were only based on moral principles when it was convenient. Right now Democrats favor appointing a new Supreme Court Justice, but they would surely be more hesitant if the circumstances were reversed.

After settling on a bicameral legislature, it was agreed tax bills must originate in the House of Representatives. As predicted, tax revenues really are redistributed from some states to others (as SG points out). Population density is probably a bigger factor today as western states tend to be relatively large.

The Senate was definitely seen as a counterweight to the threat of "excessive democracy," and Senators were not even directly elected by voters (changed, of course, under the 17th Amendment). Also, the fact only a third of Senators are up for re-election at any given time makes the government more resistant to sweeping change, along with separation of powers and federalism. Again, however, the main purpose of the Senate was always to secure more power for smaller states. What we have is just another compromise like three-fifths or ending the slave trade in 1808 or never taxing exports.

It probably made more sense before the Civil War shifted authority substantially towards the federal government and away from the states. I sometimes wonder if any of the colonies would have ratified the Constitution, if they suspected it would lead to the kind of over-arching federal authority we have today.

I sometimes wonder if we'd better off had Britain prevailed. They outlawed slavery thirty years before we did. Australia, New Zealand, Canada are well-developed and free. In fact, I'd say they're better in a lot of ways.
 
Another related side-issue is that, too often, people act like the ideas of the constitution were obvious and unanimously supported. Not at all. I remember reading an article about this, and about how, for example, the electoral college concept was highly debated, and wasn't approved overwhelmingly. You could find a lot of support against the electoral college among the Founding Fathers. So if something is in the constitution because it had support of 60% of those writing it, it's not a real big stretch to insist that "this is what the founding fathers wanted" isn't completely true. Certainly, they did not act with one mind.
 
Why the hell do you think I have disdain for liberal states? I mean I do, but I have far more for conservative states (including my own). Also, I don't want any subsidies and I cast my votes for candidates to get rid of them.

Are you certain that you are not an anarchist, rather than a modified version of libertarian?
 
There are certainly worse forms of torture. But they are not being carried out on my behalf.
Thinking, this reminds me of certain US Senators trying to distract away from their disgusting views about gay rights by pointing to countries in the Middle East. Yes, Senators Cruz and Cotton, I am more upset about your disgusting views about gay people than I am about the Ayatollah's. Because you worthless pieces of garbage are United States Senators.
 
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Thinking, this reminds me of certain US Senators trying to distract away from their disgusting views about gay rights by pointing to counties in the Middle East. Yes, Senators Cruz and Cotton, I am more upset about your disgusting views about gay people than I am about the Ayatollah's. Because you worthless pieces of garbage are United States Senators.

Simply put. . . ."We can do better"
 
I read that Scalia claimed not to be an adherent of Original Intent (or Strict Constructionism) but a school of thought referred to as "Original Meaning", that considers how a reaslnable person at the time of the adoption of the Constitution or an amendment would understand it.

Well, at least it isn't utterly intellectually indefensible unlike Original Intent, but it certainly swings the doors wide open for Scalia to make up whatever archconservative interpretation he pleases.


Psychic necromancy.

Figures.
 
I sometimes wonder if we'd better off had Britain prevailed. They outlawed slavery thirty years before we did. Australia, New Zealand, Canada are well-developed and free. In fact, I'd say they're better in a lot of ways.


I wonder if getting their peepee slapped so hard during our Revolution caused them to moderate their policies in those other colonies.

Sort of "Once burned, twice shy." imperialism.
 
I wonder if getting their peepee slapped so hard during our Revolution caused them to moderate their policies in those other colonies.

Sort of "Once burned, twice shy." imperialism.

How'd that work out for the Ugandans? Bangladeshis(Bengalis Lite)? Kenyans? South Africans? Indians? Pakistanis? Afghans?

Translation: I think the Canadians had more to do with the formation and system of government of Canada than the English. I believe nationalistic Australians and New Zealanders probably feel the same about their countries. "Where England Screwed Up" is as large an entry in the Colonial History of the World as "Where England's Hegemony Did Well for the Subject Country". Seems they did well where they could subject and/or destroy the local populations and perhaps "not so well" where they actually tried to govern.
 
I thought that the point of the Senate was to ensure that each State had an equal voice in the running of the country, regardless of how sparsely or densely populated it was. Thus the focus of the Senate on matters regarding the nation as a whole, while the House focuses on matters regarding the governance of each citizen (and thus is proportional where the Senate isn't).

It probably made more sense before the Civil War shifted authority substantially towards the federal government and away from the states. I sometimes wonder if any of the colonies would have ratified the Constitution, if they suspected it would lead to the kind of over-arching federal authority we have today.

The point was a compromise between competing legislature plans. The big and small States favoured representation plans that favoured themselves. What we have is the compromise. That's the beginning and the end of it. Everything else is just rationalisation.
 
How'd that work out for the Ugandans? Bangladeshis(Bengalis Lite)? Kenyans? South Africans? Indians? Pakistanis? Afghans?


I was expecting this.

Do you note any distinctive differences between those countries and the ones mentioned earlier?

In the several earlier examples the indigenes were largely wiped out or forced into total retreat, and the actual colonists (i.e. the ones who went there intending to stay) in question were themselves predominately English, or at the very least British.

In your examples, (with the possible exception of SA) the locals were kept and kept at work, and the representatives of the Empire generally had no plans to stay. In fact the pejorative "going native" was used to describe the few who showed an inclination to settle.

Translation: I think the Canadians had more to do with the formation and system of government of Canada than the English. I believe nationalistic Australians and New Zealanders probably feel the same about their countries. "Where England Screwed Up" is as large an entry in the Colonial History of the World as "Where England's Hegemony Did Well for the Subject Country". Seems they did well where they could subject and/or destroy the local populations and perhaps "not so well" where they actually tried to govern.
Or when they tried to treat Englishmen like natives it tended to backfire. They had sent people to settle who were just like them. Avaricious, duplicitous, pitiless, arrogant, bloody minded, and belligerent. And to make matters worse, by accident or intent, they had selected specifically for the most cantankerous and independent of their emigrant pool.

They just didn't submit worth a damn. After our Revolution gave the pols back home a taste of that they became more circumspect in their treatment of those outposts of English civilization, and maybe even realized that treating with them as near equals paid off better than fighting their own kind.
 
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I do. It's like saying that representative democracy is undemocratic because you don't vote directly for everything. It's just one form of democracy.

Again, I understand why Cain thinks its unfair, or that he'd prefer another solution, but to call it undemocratic is to say that there is only one form of democracy: the one Cain agrees with.

Here's a question: within a single state, say New York, is voting proportional?

No. Because voting districts are allotted by total population not population of voters. So you get things like those incarcerated being counted in the communities they are imprisoned in and strengthening their representation and not counted in the communities they are members of.

Then of course there is gerrymandering, something by your standards should be considered democracy neutral.
 
Why the hell do you think I have disdain for liberal states? I mean I do, but I have far more for conservative states (including my own). Also, I don't want any subsidies and I cast my votes for candidates to get rid of them.

Yes we can finally drive the confederate states back to the third world status they should be.
 
So Scalia is dead and the suspicion falls on Obama? Are we ignoring the other 200 million people in this country that wanted the man dead?

Anyways I think we need to get back on what is important; filling his seat. Particularly I find it interesting that Republicans so badly seem to want POTUS Sanders/Clinton to make the appointment rather than the twice elected POTUS we currently have. If this precedent stands where do we draw a line? Does a President simply not get to do anything in their second term?
 
So Scalia is dead and the suspicion falls on Obama? Are we ignoring the other 200 million people in this country that wanted the man dead?

Not at all. I've heard Obama, Hillary, Bush (can't remember which one), Cheney and Leonard Nimoy all as possible suspects.
 
So Scalia is dead and the suspicion falls on Obama? Are we ignoring the other 200 million people in this country that wanted the man dead?

Anyways I think we need to get back on what is important; filling his seat. Particularly I find it interesting that Republicans so badly seem to want POTUS Sanders/Clinton to make the appointment rather than the twice elected POTUS we currently have. If this precedent stands where do we draw a line? Does a President simply not get to do anything in their second term?

Closer to the election, you can bet if it looks like the election for POTUS and especially the Senate are not going the way the GOP wants, they'll have their vote in order to not risk an even more liberal choice.
 

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