Savage on Autism

There is nothing wrong with being skeptical of medicine however Savage is just being provocative. Where on earth does he get his 99% rate? That's a huge red flag. It is either hyperbolic or intellectual dishonesty since he knows that he has no basis for such a figure.

I have no idea to what degree if any when autism is misdiagnosed but I suspect that there is some degree. There is still much we do not know.
 
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Billdave2 said:
This is exactly what I was talking about in my son's case. The intial diagnosis came from the daycare. They worried because he didn't interact with the other kids like they felt was "normal". He also did not always want to follow there schedule and they saw that as his being rigid (actually it is more a sign that they are rigid). He also loved trains (still does) and would take a train and line other toys, like blocks or cars behind it and pretend they were boxcars. They saw this as preoccupation and using toys other than there intended use (even though he would also play blocks and with cars the way they were intended to if he felt like it). He also exhibited some hand flapping when running (not all the time) which is not necessarily out of the ordinary for a three year old. However, the questionaire they filled out to submit to the state listed all criteria in your post, which they listed as he "always" did, including the things he never did like rocking, lack of eye conduct and several others. The developmental pediatrician and the doctors my wife work with all also said that simply meeting the minimum requirements listed is also not a full diagnosis, it is simply the minimum and further testing must be done. Some children that meet the minimum will still not be diagnoised with Asperger's. They will probably be diagnosed as "somewhere on the very low end of the autism scale". It is dangerous to let unqualified people asses things like this.
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Which is why people without knowledge and professional supervision and consultation should not do assesment and diagnosis. especialy for children!

If they did not play train all the time then they were not preoccupied, should be eighty percent for all object played with. Including the dog most of the time.

Rocking means sustained rocking and arm flapping, more than fiveteen to twenty minutes, multiple times and in all settings.

Day care providers could be interviewed, but that takes some skill, parents and sibs would be better. But the clinicians should have met children who meet the criteria and in borderline cases consult with the autism team of some sort.
 
technoextreme said:
I wouldn't put it past the vast majority of good scientists and engineers to have some sort of mental disorder. I wouldn't necessarily say it's anything related to autism but considering the fact that a large amount of people either my parents or myself know act almost exactly the same way in some regards it's rather quite creepy.
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Does it interfere with the ability to function at work, home and social settings? Substantial impairment does not mean quirks and eccentricity, it means inability to function in at least one or two areas most of the time. To the point where they can not accomplish tasks which 'normal' people do, like the grocery store.
 
Dancing David said:
Does it interfere with the ability to function at work, home and social settings? Substantial impairment does not mean quirks and eccentricity, it means inability to function in at least one or two areas most of the time. To the point where they can not accomplish tasks which 'normal' people do, like the grocery store.
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Asperger's does not preclude functioning extremely well in certain spheres of interest. However, this may well be to the detriment of just about every other sphere of domestic life. For the autistic hell really is other people. Left to their books and work they can however contribute hugely to scientific and artistic endeavour. The profoundly autistic unfortunately rarely come out of their shell to achieve that level of independence and do require constant care.
 
Anyone read Savage's book on homeopathy? I'm assuming it was pro-homeopathy, but haven't read the book myself.
 
Dancing David said:
Does it interfere with the ability to function at work, home and social settings? Substantial impairment does not mean quirks and eccentricity, it means inability to function in at least one or two areas most of the time. To the point where they can not accomplish tasks which 'normal' people do, like the grocery store.
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Virgin at age 30. Do I need to say more?

:D
 
Delvo- I'm sorry about your brother.
Let me make it very clear that while I don't believe alcoholism is a disease (though it fits Boo's behavioural definition of "syndrome") , I have absolutely no doubt about the effects of alcohol poisoning, both on the individual and on society. It's a major problem here. But I've known people to kick the habit successfully without either medication, hospitalisation or AA type groups. They did it through discipline and the support of friends. All were fundamentally healthy before (physically and mentally) and overdid the magic potion for a number of reasons. Those had to be addressed to- and that was very hard in a couple of instances. It's not something I'm flippant or dismissive about. I just don't think treating it as a disease is a healthy or helpful attitude in many (I'd say most) cases. All people differ and your experience may differ greatly.
I simply think that if treating it as an illness works then that's the way to go, but that in many cases that's not the way to go.
Getting at the reasons for the behaviour is usually critical. How best to do that varies on a case by case basis.

Re your observations on my comments on TG's book- you make a good case. I don't agree with all her conclusions and may have misunderstood some. It's an intriguing book.
 
Nogbad said:
Asperger's does not preclude functioning extremely well in certain spheres of interest. However, this may well be to the detriment of just about every other sphere of domestic life. For the autistic hell really is other people. Left to their books and work they can however contribute hugely to scientific and artistic endeavour. The profoundly autistic unfortunately rarely come out of their shell to achieve that level of independence and do require constant care.
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True, I worked with some, the real issue was the change in routine, especialy at the grocery store.

But they managed pretty well, i would say they were moderate not profound.
 
Dancing David said:
Which is why people without knowledge and professional supervision and consultation should not do assesment and diagnosis. especialy for children!

If they did not play train all the time then they were not preoccupied, should be eighty percent for all object played with. Including the dog most of the time.

Rocking means sustained rocking and arm flapping, more than fiveteen to twenty minutes, multiple times and in all settings.

Day care providers could be interviewed, but that takes some skill, parents and sibs would be better. But the clinicians should have met children who meet the criteria and in borderline cases consult with the autism team of some sort.
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That is why when the Developmental Pediatrician examined my son he could not believe he was the same child described by the daycare. They had described a child with every single symptom, and rated them as "always". He was expecting profoundly autistic child. The daycare workers "thought" he was autistic and so they simply filled out the forms to reflect that. If My wife hadn't known and simply submitted the paperwork, the state would have admitted him to the special needs school (which is free) and then later we would have had trouble getting him back into the mainstream. I know that some of the patients my wife sees are not severly affected, but th eparents want the diagnosis to be worse so they can qualify for what amounts to free daycare and/or a disability check (once again this is a small minority, but it does exist).

The other side of the spectrum is that even my wife would see some of the things I described my son doing (the lineing things up to play trains, flapping his hands when running) and ,since she knew what to look for, would panic and get upset. She has the "curse of knowledge" where parents who do know what to look for overreact to small things.
 
Billdave2 said:
That is why when the Developmental Pediatrician examined my son he could not believe he was the same child described by the daycare. They had described a child with every single symptom, and rated them as "always". He was expecting profoundly autistic child. The daycare workers "thought" he was autistic and so they simply filled out the forms to reflect that. If My wife hadn't known and simply submitted the paperwork, the state would have admitted him to the special needs school (which is free) and then later we would have had trouble getting him back into the mainstream. I know that some of the patients my wife sees are not severly affected, but th eparents want the diagnosis to be worse so they can qualify for what amounts to free daycare and/or a disability check (once again this is a small minority, but it does exist).
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My question is: Why is there no penalty to them?

They were NOT acting in good faith when they filled out the forms. They were asked to use their professional judgment to accurately and completely fill out the forms. Those forms could have a profound impact on your child's future.

If they did it in one case, they would do it in others.

I urge you to take this to the school board, and have a manditory education program for those teachers, to help them learn how to properly report conditions, or else take away any role they have, except in the most strictly informal capacity.

If they screwed up one case, they may have screwed up others. Not everyone is lucky enough to have parents who are smart enough and take the initiative to challenge the word of so-called experts.
 
Is "diagnosing" part of their job? If so, that's terrible. Teachers or daycare workers should not diagnose unless they are trained medical workers as well. I wonder how many other people have been put through this, and of those, how many parents were smart enough to follow up?
 
This is the nub. ARE THEY malfunctions? Or are they perfectly "normal" gene combinations, widespread in the population. (6 billion divided by 150 is (gropes for calculator, finds long-lost floppy disc- dammit so that's where...*- a lot. These can't all have "malfunctioned" unless we're looking for something out of "Silent Spring" . (Is TV the new DDT?)
Are they malfunctions or are they just variations on the norm?
(nb, "Normal" is another of those "N-Words". I use it in the purely statistical sense.)
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I wanted to address this from Soapy's comments. Genetic research is ongoing in Autism. There multiple studies being done at research facilities all over the world all of them looking at DNA from people across the Autism spectrum and their families. One of the leading Universities of Autism research in the area of genetics is Duke in NC. This is a link that explores briefly some of what is known about Autism and genetics. These are genetic malfunctions and different malfunctions can produce different 'flavors' if you will of Autism.


http://www.autism-pdd.net/research.html


Hope this helps answer a few more of those questions.


Boo
 
Michael Savage has a long history of comments like these.
I am not a big fan of either Limbaugh or Hannity, but they are much less inflammatory then Savage is.
If I were an advertiser on his show, I would have pulled out over this. I would not want my business connected with crap like this.
If I have one thing against Howard Stern, it is that he started this whole routine of radio talk show hosts trying to get more outrageous in order to get more ratings. He let the cat out of the bag, although to be fair, Stern would not make a comment like that.
I never thought I would see the day when Savage and the Church of $cientology would be on the same page except for the need to make as much money as possible.
It's interesting the only ones defending this dickwad are other talk show hosts...including some Air America personalaties.
 
Billdave2 said:
That is why when the Developmental Pediatrician examined my son he could not believe he was the same child described by the daycare. They had described a child with every single symptom, and rated them as "always". He was expecting profoundly autistic child. The daycare workers "thought" he was autistic and so they simply filled out the forms to reflect that. If My wife hadn't known and simply submitted the paperwork, the state would have admitted him to the special needs school (which is free) and then later we would have had trouble getting him back into the mainstream. I know that some of the patients my wife sees are not severly affected, but th eparents want the diagnosis to be worse so they can qualify for what amounts to free daycare and/or a disability check (once again this is a small minority, but it does exist).

The other side of the spectrum is that even my wife would see some of the things I described my son doing (the lineing things up to play trains, flapping his hands when running) and ,since she knew what to look for, would panic and get upset. She has the "curse of knowledge" where parents who do know what to look for overreact to small things.
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Ah yes the cluster of the Freshman Psych Syndrome, you worry about a lot (as I know).
 
LibraryLady said:
Is "diagnosing" part of their job? If so, that's terrible. Teachers or daycare workers should not diagnose unless they are trained medical workers as well. I wonder how many other people have been put through this, and of those, how many parents were smart enough to follow up?
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Usualy, but I don't know SC laws, there is a further screening as well. This may have been a preliminary refferal, there is usualy a subsequent and further assesment prior to admission to special education. So it is likely (at least in Illinois) that they would have been bounced back by the MSW and the school psychologist, especialy since there is a standard of criteria for special ed (the big one being that your academic expression does not match your tested ability or that you have an IQ below 70).
 
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