Saudi Arabia - whats going on there?

[Childlike Empress]

Deserves explanation indeed: Why Saudi Public Relations Are So Disastrous

 

[The Don]

I'm not sure how Iran can make the claim that they have more Islamic history than Saudi Arabia.

Economic claims are also not entirely clear - on what basis are they made.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I'm not sure how Iran can make the claim that they have more Islamic history than Saudi Arabia.

Economic claims are also not entirely clear - on what basis are they made.

Does it say "Islam" on any of the covers? "Saudi" Arabia with its repulsive mutation of that religion is just another not very old sad creation of the Brits, btw. Contrary to Iran.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Here's an interesting read about the creation of Saudi Arabia. Before you complain about the title, as he states in the comments the author understands Zionism at that time to be the implementation of the (just turned 100 years old) Balfour declaration.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

I'm not sure how Iran can make the claim that they have more Islamic history than Saudi Arabia.

Economic claims are also not entirely clear - on what basis are they made.

I think the biggest differences between them are the ones which pre-date Muslim expansion.

Economically, they sat on some of the silk road routes and had governments and budgets and fiscal/trade policies on a far greater scale that the Arabian Peninsula saw. Note that I am not saying no trade or wide-ranging informal systems existed in Arabia, but the scale is not even remotely comparable to Parthian, Sassanian, and other regimes through ancient and classical times.

This is where the tapatalk signature that annoys people used to be

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Persians were very productive in the Islamic Golden Age though, and also during the Ilkhanate. Their cultural influence stretched into the entirety of the Turkic world as well. That said, there's only very limited continuity between those eras and the Iranian state of today, which is really only 500 years old at most.

Much of the celebration of Pre-Islamic Iran appears to hail from the Ilkhanate as well, with Chingiis Khan being compared to Cyrus the Great as a route to legitimacy.

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Persians were very productive in the Islamic Golden Age though, and also during the Ilkhanate. Their cultural influence stretched into the entirety of the Turkic world as well. That said, there's only very limited continuity between those eras and the Iranian state of today, which is really only 500 years old at most.

Much of the celebration of Pre-Islamic Iran appears to hail from the Ilkhanate as well, with Chingiis Khan being compared to Cyrus the Great as a route to legitimacy.

I was thinking more in cultural terms (thus spanning not only governments, but even the various ethnic changes over time). Certainly a reading of that comic in a nationalistic light is poorly informed.

Certainly the modern state doesn't track well past certain points. A Mongol invasion, thorough destruction of the infrastructure, and a few centuries of neglect by similar nomadic-minded foreign invaders (yes, there were exceptions) tends to interrupt the continuity, yeah.

Culturally speaking however, and without insult or praise to the respective cultures themselves, from an objective standpoint I have to agree there's a rather stark contrast in historical depth of achievements.

Which should not be taken to mean that is the case at this moment. SA, for all its faults, is investing in renewables and desalinization. There are forces within the country which intend to continue being an "energy rich" country post fossil fuels. In terms of utility and contribution to the ever-unfolding story of humanity, that's got some weight to it, too. Especially since the most significant contributions Iran seems to be going for right now is "maybe doing some medical research or maybe making bombs."

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Iran produces a LOT of engineers. Their educational achievements are pretty remarkable. Albeit I'm uncertain about how SA looks in this area.

 

[TubbaBlubba]

Certainly the modern state doesn't track well past certain points. A Mongol invasion, thorough destruction of the infrastructure, and a few centuries of neglect by similar nomadic-minded foreign invaders (yes, there were exceptions) tends to interrupt the continuity, yeah.

Not to mention one of their few relatively "native" rulers, Ishma'il I, deciding to convert the country to Twelver Shi'a Islam overnight due to his own pretentions of being the Mahdi

 

[Delphic Oracle]

Iran produces a LOT of engineers. Their educational achievements are pretty remarkable. Albeit I'm uncertain about how SA looks in this area.

True, I let myself blur that culture/government distinction myself there :9.

Also again a mark against SA is that while they're pioneering some critical technologies, their investment in that still pales in comparison to say, promoting violent Wahhabism across half the globe.

So there's that, too.

Not to mention one of their few relatively "native" rulers, Ishma'il I, deciding to convert the country to Twelver Shi'a Islam overnight due to his own pretentions of being the Mahdi

I'd prefer not to get going on the extraordinary hubris and pretentiousness that took.

Mostly to avoid having to acknowledge how brilliant (and lucky) he was.

:9

 

[Childlike Empress]

The first princes are released from their five+ star prison. According to the report, torture in one way or another has been going on. Middle East Eye is London-based and likely not as financially independent as it seems, with Qatar paying the bills. So grains of salt as always appropriate.

Meanwhile, Hariri back as PM in Lebanon is loud in the media but doesn't want to talk about what actually happened to him in KSA. Instead, he is threatening to resign (again?) if his coalition partner Hezbollah's forces don't stop their engagement outside the country.

Which is laughable. It's like if Trump would have been kidnapped in China and "resigned" there, and even Killary and other worst enemies had demanded that China lets off of him, and then he returns and threatens to resign again if the wall isn't build.

 

[Eddie Dane]

The first princes are released from their five+ star prison. According to the report, torture in one way or another has been going on. Middle East Eye is London-based and likely not as financially independent as it seems, with Qatar paying the bills. So grains of salt as always appropriate.

Meanwhile, Hariri back as PM in Lebanon is loud in the media but doesn't want to talk about what actually happened to him in KSA. Instead, he is threatening to resign (again?) if his coalition partner Hezbollah's forces don't stop their engagement outside the country.

Which is laughable. It's like if Trump would have been kidnapped in China and "resigned" there, and even Killary and other worst enemies had demanded that China lets off of him, and then he returns and threatens to resign again if the wall isn't build.

I'm sure Hariri wasn't a big fan of a foreign-controlled militia starting wars on his country's behalf, even before his stay in KSA.

 

[Timur]

The fact is that Lebanon has long been and is more than anytime since the civil war a complete mess. It's riven by communal factions who serve as proxies of larger outside powers. The economy's a mess, something like 20% of the population consists of Syrian refugees, corruption is rife, the factions themselves are at odds.. besides reading history, I glean much from the standard journals and dailystar.com.lb.

 

[Airfix]

A very repressive dictatorship exists in Saudi Arabia and it's high time my country stopped arming it.

 

[Timur]

Well, the idea that arming a country should be contingent only upon a good human rights record is attractive, and even possible, is not realistic in the wonderful world of geopolitical strategy. That can and should be one consideration, but is not the only one, and never has been. That said, they do seem to be making some small, halting moves in becoming more democratic, as with women's rights.