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Saudi Arabia says "NO" to free speech

Saudi Arabia has never had anything resembling free speech. There's nothing for them to say "no" to.
 
Sword_Of_Truth said:
Saudi Arabia has never had anything resembling free speech. There's nothing for them to say "no" to.
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true. i just think its worth pointing out, from time to time, that Saudi Arabia is a brutal dictatorship and the USA supports them by buying their oil and with official support.
 
Thunder said:
true. i just think its worth pointing out, from time to time, that Saudi Arabia is a brutal dictatorship and the USA supports them by buying their oil and with official support.
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Second time I've agreed with you today.

I feel the sudden need to take a shower.
 
Thunder said:
not my problem. I want my country to stand for freedom, justice, liberty, and tolerance. supporting Saudi Arabia & China does no such thing.
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Put that into practical terms. What do you want America to do about China and Saudi Arabia?
 
Virus said:
Put that into practical terms. What do you want America to do about China and Saudi Arabia?
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#1. badger them on a much more frequent basis, on their human rights record.

#2. invite the Dalai Lama for a lovely lunch & chat at the White House.

#3. reconsider China's most-favored nation trade status.
 
Thunder said:
#1. badger them on a much more frequent basis, on their human rights record.

#2. invite the Dalai Lama for a lovely lunch & chat at the White House.

#3. reconsider China's most-favored nation trade status.
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Did you vote for Obama Parky? He's a foreign policy realist. He's only doing what he said he'd do.

King Abdullah is reform minded and liberal by Saudi standards. Parky of course, is outraged. Soooo outraged by America being on good terms with the King.
 
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Thunder said:
not my problem. I want my country to stand for freedom, justice, liberty, and tolerance. supporting Saudi Arabia & China does no such thing.
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This is fine and I don't disagree with it.

But would you be in favour of the US tying human rights concerns to trade?

For example, we'll deal with you and buy your products on the condition that you do XYZ?
 
angrysoba said:
This is fine and I don't disagree with it.

But would you be in favour of the US tying human rights concerns to trade?

For example, we'll deal with you and buy your products on the condition that you do XYZ?
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the USA should not be giving most-favored nation trade status to big-time human rights abusers.
 
Virus said:
Did you vote for Obama Parky? He's a foreign policy realist. He's only doing what he said he'd do.

King Abdullah is reform minded and liberal by Saudi standards. Parky of course, is outraged. Soooo outraged by America being on good terms with the King.
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we invade Iraq to liberate their people from tyranny and oppression, while we play footsie with brutal dictators in Saudi Arabia and authoritarian scum in China.

and now we have the GOP leader in the Senate stating he doesn't think getting rid of Khaddafi is such a good idea, even after seeing his brutality just this week.

God shed his Grace on thee...
 
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Thunder said:
we invade Iraq to liberate their people from tyranny and oppression, while we play footsie with brutal dictators in Saudi Arabia and authoritarian scum in China.
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Equivalence denied.

As usual. The thread is really just a thin veneer for hatred of the US.
 
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Thunder said:
the USA should not be giving most-favored nation trade status to big-time human rights abusers.
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But you are arguing this from a lack of context. The United States has tied China's trading status to its human right since 1951. Do good the US rewards you as a trading partner. Slip ups such as Tiananmen where heavily punished. In fact China's MDN status is reviewed annualy, and it does change.

China is showing a willingness to reform and improve. Many would argue the pace of change should be faster, and I would not disagree with them. However things are getting better year by year, and thats the important element
 
Virus said:
Equivalence denied.

As usual. The thread is really just a thin veneer for hatred of the US.
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no Virus, demanding consistency from the United States does NOT equal "hatred fo the USA".

such an "America, right or wrong" and "America, love it or leave it", is very unsophosticated.

I love America, and I love our values. I want us to represent our values and demand our partners around the world abide by them.

Call me a fan of JFK and George W. Bush. ;)
 
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MG1962 said:
But you are arguing this from a lack of context. The United States has tied China's trading status to its human right since 1951. Do good the US rewards you as a trading partner. Slip ups such as Tiananmen where heavily punished. In fact China's MDN status is reviewed annualy, and it does change.

China is showing a willingness to reform and improve. Many would argue the pace of change should be faster, and I would not disagree with them. However things are getting better year by year, and thats the important element
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I think this is true. As much as things are still too oppressive in China, things are gradually improving. We know that things are not as bad as they were under Mao and in fact, not as bad as under Deng Xiaoping. That isn't nothing. Contrast that to say, North Korea, where things have been going backwards since the seventies.

Saudi Arabia is still very much in the dark ages and I don't know if genuine reform will come there for some time. There has been a lot of talk from people like King Abdullah and a few of the princes about reform - and a lot of talk from Washington about how the US is urging it - but with the Saudis I'll believe it when I see it and not before.
 
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