Sarah Palin!

R.Mackey said:
Maybe I'm just not making myself clear. I understand the advantage during the election, but supposing I'm not just playing the odds and want to know what the candidate really offers, what is there? Forget party lines for a moment -- is there anyone who really thinks she has some special quality that makes her a good fit for the job, or is she just window dressing for the election? Does she have any fans? Even if your background doesn't agree with mine, I'd at least like to know that someone is in favor of the decision.
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Lots of people are in favor of the decision. Most are admittedly Republicans, but there are a couple links up above to Hillary supporters who have been thrilled.

There are (were, anyway) plenty of people who gushed over Edwards -- I never saw it, but some would at least make the argument that he would make a positive impact on important legal decisions like eminent domain and tort reform. He had his fans.
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Huh? Trial lawyer Ken was going to do something about tort reform? From the VP slot? No, anybody gushing about the pick was thinking he might help in the South and that he had better hair than Cheney.

George HW Bush was eminently qualified and liked working in the background. Maybe not as popular, but one could argue that he was a good fit for the job of VP, and some did.
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Okay, let's talk about what the job of VP is. You're assuming it's president-in-case, and of course that's a practical consideration. But the actual day-to-day function is to show up at weddings and funerals of foreign dignitaries, and occasionally cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate.

People say that the president-in-case situation is more important with McCain because of his age, and then they throw in the list of VPs who've ascended to the presidency. But in fact there have been very few presidents who've died in office of natural causes. Both Harrison and Taylor died of sudden ailments--Harrison of pneumonia and Taylor apparently of heatstroke--that don't seem particularly relevant. So really there's only FDR as the historical comp.

What argument, besides "she'll help him win," can you make for Palin? She's an unknown to me. So far I've gotten virtually nothing. I don't expect to agree with it, but at least convince me there's some deeper reasoning at work.
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She's been successful at everything she's done. She's hugely popular as a reform governor. Her decision to carry the Down's Syndrome baby to term indicates that she does not abandon what she professes when it becomes inconvenient. That kind of integrity is important to me even though I'm personally pro-choice. She means what she says.

But I'll admit that it's politically that the choice makes me swoon. Her life story is inspiring, every bit as inspiring as Obama's, McCain's and Biden's (not talked about enough aside from the plagiarism, Biden really does have a compelling life story). These are all people who overcame obstacles and humble beginnings (McCain's admittedly less on the latter and more on the former).
 
gdnp said:
Bah. 4 years in the Senate and 8 years in the Illinois legislature trumps 10 years of small town government and less than 2 running the 47th most populous state. Plus, Obama was vetted through an arduous primary process.
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Like I said, I am astounded that the Obama fans don't see the downside of this argument. If 4 years in the Senate and 8 years in the Illinois legislature trumps Sarah Palin, then surely McCain's 22 years in the Senate and 4 years in the House of Representatives trumps Obama?

You folks have to be kidding with this argument.
 
I agree with Brainster above. If anything, Palin and Obama are on pretty similar footing experience wise.

Obama: 8 years state legislature 4 years Senate

Palin 10 years local government 2 years state governor

Does 4 years in the Senate as a legislator somehow trump state executive experience?

I'm not really sure how choosing Palin means McCain supporters can't point out how he McCain still has way more experience than Obama.
 
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MattusMaximus said:
Ahem Brainster, I repeat...

Sarah Palin CNBC Interview: What does the VP do?

You've got to be kidding me, right?
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Yes, the usual misreading and quote-mining we have come to expect from the "McCain wants 100 years of war in Iraq" crowd. Palin asks what does the VP do, every day. She goes on to talk about what a workaholic she is and that she enjoys what she's doing for Alaska.

But feel free to convince yourself that what the VP candidate said a few months ago matters:

 
So I point out her cluelessness about the VP position in an unedited interview that she gave, and you respond with a political ad?

Yeah, good one... :rolleyes:

Allow me to emphasize the obvious: She didn't even know what the VP does. She didn't seem to think it was important, and even the interviewer seemed a bit taken aback at her comments.

Give me a break.
 
gdnp said:
Looks like she's been asked to run the PTA.
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Now I will say that I do think this is a low blow. She may be (or look like) a PTA-like mom, but we shouldn't make such comments because they can be seen as insulting to other PTA moms. That actually isn't fair.

No doubt the GOP is hoping that such remarks will be regarded by other PTA moms as insults and therefore drive support to McCain. This is surely calculated in, I would think. That is, unless McCain's just gone crazy.

My issue with her, beyond her crazy stances on being a standard bearer for the religious right (she is anti-modern climate science and anti-evolution science, for example), is that she was interviewed a few weeks ago about the possibility of her being a VP pick, and here's what she had to say...

Sarah Palin: What does a VP do?

Oh... my... FSM... :boggled:
 
Brainster said:
Lots of people are in favor of the decision. Most are admittedly Republicans, but there are a couple links up above to Hillary supporters who have been thrilled.
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You do eventually address my question below, and for that you have my appreciation. Before we get there, however, this doesn't address my question. Perhaps one of those people could give me their reasons..?

Brainster said:
Huh? Trial lawyer Ken was going to do something about tort reform? From the VP slot? No, anybody gushing about the pick was thinking he might help in the South and that he had better hair than Cheney.
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I didn't buy it myself, but that's one of the things I heard. He had his supporters, and it wasn't all based on good looks and an accent. I want to hear from advocates. I want to know what they think about her and why, or even if she has any.

Brainster said:
Okay, let's talk about what the job of VP is. You're assuming it's president-in-case, and of course that's a practical consideration. But the actual day-to-day function is to show up at weddings and funerals of foreign dignitaries, and occasionally cast a tie-breaking vote in the Senate.
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Yes, I know. One answer to my question is whether Ms. Palin would be particularly good at these things.

Brainster said:
People say that the president-in-case situation is more important with McCain because of his age, and then they throw in the list of VPs who've ascended to the presidency. But in fact there have been very few presidents who've died in office of natural causes. Both Harrison and Taylor died of sudden ailments--Harrison of pneumonia and Taylor apparently of heatstroke--that don't seem particularly relevant. So really there's only FDR as the historical comp.
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A VP may have to step up for reasons other than death. The odds of McCain being indisposed for medical reasons are, I would hazard, not insignificant. He will surely tire even if this doesn't come to pass.

But you'll note I haven't rejected Ms. Palin on these grounds. I don't know her. Do you think she'd be good at the role? Why?

Brainster said:
She's been successful at everything she's done. She's hugely popular as a reform governor. Her decision to carry the Down's Syndrome baby to term indicates that she does not abandon what she professes when it becomes inconvenient. That kind of integrity is important to me even though I'm personally pro-choice. She means what she says.

But I'll admit that it's politically that the choice makes me swoon. Her life story is inspiring, every bit as inspiring as Obama's, McCain's and Biden's (not talked about enough aside from the plagiarism, Biden really does have a compelling life story). These are all people who overcame obstacles and humble beginnings (McCain's admittedly less on the latter and more on the former).
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Ah. This is the kind of thing I'm looking for. If I may paraphrase, you're saying "she has shown good character." That's a start.

Personally it's not enough to sway me much, but I respect your opinion. You are the first to give me a straight answer, maybe more will be forthcoming.
 
Brainster said:
Like I said, I am astounded that the Obama fans don't see the downside of this argument. If 4 years in the Senate and 8 years in the Illinois legislature trumps Sarah Palin, then surely McCain's 22 years in the Senate and 4 years in the House of Representatives trumps Obama?

You folks have to be kidding with this argument.
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Except that there's a very distinct possibility that McCain's VP this year could end up as President (his age + his recurring melonoma). That makes it extremely vital that his VP be treated as a likely replacement president.

Obama's experience - yes, he has experience - trumps Palin's. Not only does he have combined Senatorial experience, he also was a constitutional law professor and happens to be exceptionally bright (graduated magna cum laude from the most prestigious Ivy League).

But I also realize a need to get to know Palin better and listen to her speak before making a final assessment about her abilities/strengths.

Just seems she's not off to the best start when she asks her audience to tell her what a VP's duties are.
 
Obama likely is helped and harmed by the fact that he's Black, in this election.

So will any female who has a shot at POTUS. While putting a woman onto McCain's ticket might draw some votes a la PUMA, there will likely be a goodly portion of men who figure they'll rot in Hell before voting for a women VP during war times, when a President McCain could easily expire at any time.

These men will likely be on the fence about McCain already. But they exist. And being attractive is likely working for Obama, but that could actually work against Palin, as a female. Relatively young, cute women don't tend to get taken as seriously in politics or in most other vocational venues. Especially ex beauty queens.

We will find out soon if McCain was simply thinking with his gonads in choosing her (as he is known to do).
 
I think she looks like Elaine from Seinfeld. I can't wait for her to yadda, yadda, yadda, Biden in a debate.

She didn't even know what the VP does
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Trick question. The VP does nothing.
 
Whiplash said:
People keep saying her experience matters because McCain is old, and may die. All the while /handwaving away similar concerns about the experience of the guy who would actually be Presiden RIGHT FROM DAY ONE, not in some hypothetical scenario later.

If you want to insist that Obama's inexperience is not a problem to be PRESIDENT, you can't argue that Palin's inexperience is a problem to be VICE PRESIDENT. Especially as part of hypotheticals.

This is ridiculous. Your side has been poopooing the experience arugment for months. Now, you want to make it, loudly, about the number TWO person on the ticket. This is outrageous and ridiculous.
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The difference is that the American people have seen Barrack during the last year, and have seen him take on the Democratic Party's best and brightest and win. While campaigning ability may not translate into Presidential ability, we've seen that he's able to unite, that he can think strategically and tactically, favorably sway international opinion, and choose the right people for a particular job--all jobs that I'd like in a president, and that the current one, in my opinion does not possess. In areas where experience is lacking (say, foreign policy), Biden complements.

On the other hand, it's hard to see how Vice-President Palin would complement McCain.
And given how we don't know who McCain/Palin's executive will be composed of, it's darn hard to imagine President Palin--who would be her Biden, if that's the case?
 
GregHouseMD said:
The same could be said of having oral sex with an intern in the oval office but I'm just saying...

If you want to dig up old stuff, how about Joe Biden's little faux pas with plagerism in law school and the puffing (a generous term) of his school records? The reason he did not complete the run for the presidency in 1988.

I was in college then, I remember discussing it in class.

Bottom line, everyone has done things they regret.

Let's move on to the current election and events that have not yet been addressed.
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You're kinda new to this thing called "politics", aren't you?
 
BenBurch said:
Because who he is and what he does matters not at all as long as he is a Republican?
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Everyone has a past, and most have moments that are regretable. Obama consorted with domestic terrorists, belonged to a church that damned this very country. And Hilary..remember White Water? The sniper fire incident?

Would I not vote for someone for saying something in very bad taste? Depends on what he said, but in this case, he asked for and got forgiveness from Clinton. Ten years ago.

I don't hold grudges on the part of others.

Palin is a wonderful choice, and has Democrats stunned and worried. She has more executive experience than the Democratic nominee for President, and is a "real" person, which is refreshing given the anti-Washington feeling running around this country.
 
R.Mackey said:
I rarely post in Politics, but please help me understand this -- there have been eight pages so far, and one simple question appears yet to be asked or answered:

What does she bring to the table?

I see the choice as shrewd, but risky, in a purely election-tactical sense. The day the election is over, I don't see any wisdom to this pick. VP is not a training position, it's a spare. I don't find Joe Biden to be an inspiring pick, but it is sound, and he is certainly capable enough. Cheney has earned all kinds of unpleasant descriptions, but "incompetent" is not one of them. Al Gore c. 1992 was a fresher face, but he brought energy and policy ideas to create a balanced ticket.

So is there more to Ms. Palin? So far, I don't see it at all.
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I think there is more. In the past she would have been vetted by the Foreign policy establishment that runs organizations like the CFR, Trilateral Commission, and the Bilderbergers. These ‘wise men’ would never let anyone get within a heart beat of the Presidency unless they were assured they were a safe choice.
 
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